Electronic ignition

[royhall]

The RAC/AA are really very good these days. Sorry, I said I would zip it but couldn't resist.

[K2-K6]

I've never had a failed ignition on a bike, conventional or electronic. They seem pretty reliable.  Saw a friend (electrician no less) connect his car up to battery the wrong way and fried his electronic ignition amp.

Cars are far more often affected by fuel pump relay, had two of those. One rescued by AA and one I by bypassed with a supply (10 amp fused and ignition controlled) from the fag lighter "ring main" 

Also one alternator on an old land rover in excess of a hundred thousand miles, AA again and charged it from his van while he looked the manuls etc. He could of got one from somewhere as it was about 1.00am which would mean a long wait, and so started it with the handle (old V8 still with that facility) and he drove to my home so i could follow him without headlights on to save power 

Highly unlikely that you'd get a failure on a bike of any ignition system.

[Sesman]

Agree with the reliability issue.

My personal objective is to achieve a heap and cheerful way of preserving my original points and condensers due to the prohibitive cost of quality replacements. I bet the materials won’t cost more than £7 and my time comes for free. Also it’s quite possible that if a do need points I can use low quality  items and junk the condenser.

Just saying.

[royhall]

I am actually finding this thread very interesting and informative but I feel I need to keep interjecting these little comments to keep things real. Am looking forward to seeing the home brewed EI.

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[allankelly1]

Out of curiosity if wanted as a rebuild to replace all the original ignition parts with like for like / original Honda parts, did a quick add up on the David silver site and to replace all with genuine parts (2 set of points 2 condensers and a new pair of coils) is £267 which is more than a complete Boyer kit

So personally for me going full EI makes perfect sense

Best wishes Al


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[royhall]

Or just a points replacement system for £110. Keeping existing coils and advancer, and let's be honest those parts never break.

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[AshimotoK0]

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just can't keep my big trap shut 

back to  :-

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[royhall]

No I refuse to be gagged.

[allankelly1]

Or just a points replacement system for £110. Keeping existing coils and advancer, and let's be honest those parts never break.

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I would agree on the advance system but not so much on coils as originals and their HT leads are almost 50 years old now


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[royhall]

Sorry cant comment I have been zipped.

[Nurse Julie]

Can not see the point in electronic ignition. Points have never let me down across 4 SOHC's on the road and they get loads of miles put on them every year with no problems whatsoever. Keep it simple as these old bikes were meant to be .

[K2-K6]

I am actually finding this thread very interesting and informative but I feel I need to keep interjecting these little comments to keep things real. Am looking forward to seeing the home brewed EI.

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Same here, and appreciate the contributions in discussing it. As noted, each may have a different interest in why or why not to use a particular system, with decent debate that can inform those views then people can at least make up their own mind as to which elements they find most important to their situation.

When I was training in engineering,  they said "perfection doesn't exist" and "that you can't be looking close enough if you think it does".
To this is added "that's what understanding realistic tolerancing is about" it's this bit that makes producing anything realistic as properly applied it will bring components to exist that meet both durability, performance AND cost targets.

Another saying is "can you afford to pay for that tolerance" as used in "that's exactly what I want" followed by "how much did you say it's going to cost ? "

The classic, performance-weight-cost balance,  pick two of three, because that's what production engineering is about. Or versions thereof.

Certainly I value Ash's input from electronic side, delta's from a different sphere than our own UK one, along with any others that are either contributing or questioning.

Many aftermarket "solutions" of course will trumpet their own superiority naturally,  but through intelligent discussion here we can certainly bring to sharp focus exactly what does what.

[royhall]

I suppose for me it's just being a bit lazy. I would like the bikes to be as authentic as possible within a price point, but I just have better things to do than be cleaning and setting points. For me it's about the most tedious job on the bikes, so I love the fit and forget aspect of EI. At the end of the day it's personal opinion as to which system suits best. But either way I don't really see reliability as being that much of an issue. Bugger, the zip appears to have broken again.

[Nurse Julie]

I suppose for myself personally it's peace of mind with the original points /condenser that if 1 of either go down, I can still get somewhere, even if only on 2 cylinders. In the great scheme of things, I actually still do quite a few miles on my bikes, at leat 50% of the time riding out on my own. At least I can always get to somewhere safe, even if it's not all the way home.

[K2-K6]

Also quite prevalent within the great wide internet discussion is something I call perception failures.

I've worked for years on a particular type of car engine ( from pre electronic, but most are now not) with the electronic ignition fitted as standard viewed as extremely suspect. I've only ever had one definitely confirmed failure in my hands, which was in 1989  it's a full on electronic system with mag/hall effect triggering (ooh, forgot that it's always been mechanical advance) the signal of which is amplified to then switch load with a transistor for single coil. It has a curiosity, often missed, that causes a "failure" in vehicle, that it has a single wire from the switched side of coil to give a metronome signal to the fuel injection ECU, this effectively gives the ECU rpm read and without which it KNOWS the crank isn't turning at all. The uppshot of which means the ECU will not fire the injectors as internal logic deems the engine is stopped. No end of fun is had with this if missed, but the ignition often gets the blame as cranking it reveals it dead as a doornail. Often come on forum with "I've replaced, leads cap, coil, plugs etc etc" all to no avail. 
Or the next item they project as failed is the ECU as there's not fuel once they find they have a spark.

Non start and everyone seems to point to ignition as they don't know what goes on in that suspicious electronic fandangled thing. Couldn't possibly be the fuel temp sensor, pressure regulator, pump feed, air flow meter, idle air control valve etc etc, always a guess but ignition rarely failed when it comes down to through diagnosis. 

Interesting that whatever the start point, the ignition nearly always cops as if it's some subversive system aimed solely at not taking you where you need to go, but often totally reliable.