Author Topic: Plug caps and plugs  (Read 1036 times)

Offline Sesman

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Plug caps and plugs
« on: May 26, 2022, 12:20:15 PM »
Good news, plug caps are back in stock at Greenspark.

Code   Qty   
Product

    
XD05F (BLACK)   2   
NGK XD05F (BLACK) / 8072 Spark Plug Cap Genuine NGK Component

    
SD05F (BLACK)   2   
NGK SD05F (BLACK) / 8022 Spark Plug Cap Genuine NGK Component

    
DR7ES   4   
NGK DR7ES / 3123 Standard Spark Plug Replaces PE083 RA6HC X22ESR-U

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Offline deltarider

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2022, 09:32:00 PM »
Why would you want resistor caps and resistor plugs?

Offline Sesman

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2022, 10:23:41 PM »
Who knows…seems to work just fine!

Offline deltarider

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2022, 06:45:43 AM »
Maybe, but for how long? Honda France advised to replace caps when over > 8kΩ.

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2022, 07:10:49 AM »
Many ignition system successfully run both cap/lead and plug resistance, failure of the cap is relevant to it's own specific performance if out of range, but total accumulation of resistance something of another issue and depending on perceived view.

Canadian specification for some models with these points and coils calls for both cap and plug resistance, effectively Honda itself says that's not a problem.

Offline Sesman

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2022, 08:39:13 AM »
Mmmm…so France and Canada are at odds with each other….

I’ve run D7ES, D7EA and DR7ES successfully in the 550 and without detecting any change to starting and running characteristics. The 550 F2 manual supplement recommends both D7ES and DR7ES, presumably to cover all continents.

But of course I don’t do big mileage….that’s what the GS is for.


« Last Edit: May 30, 2022, 08:43:28 AM by Sesman »

Offline deltarider

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2022, 08:42:57 AM »
Resistors in both cap and plug will result in 20kΩ in one circuit. Goldwings and similar models equipped with radio's - and sometimes even citizen band radio's - had this. My Goldwing GL1100D Interstate in Canada  had it. As far as our models, I can't see any benificial effect coming from an overdose of suppression. All statements that there's is, have failed to deliver proof. In the 80s I have contacted Honda The Netherlands on the subject. I was advised to fit 5kΩ plugs. That is 10kΩ in one circuit. Plenty to prevent interference and that's what the suppression is for. In all automotive litterature I know, there's no mentioning of any further benificial effect. None whatsoever. But... with these unseen mysteries, it's a great way to profile your self as an expert as nobody is able to proof you're wrong. The international forum sees a lot of similar claims...

Offline Sesman

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2022, 08:49:30 AM »
Yes, totally. I’ve always thought that to present oneself without proof is a great way to demonstrate you are not an expert? ;D. At college we were given formulas to remember and regurgitate. At University we were given the answers and had to prove them. We were evaluated on the proof detail and content. It was a much more challenging concept and a much sterner test of understanding and expertise.

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2022, 09:37:06 AM »
The Honda directions do establish that it's not detrimental though to run both, that is factual as they've completed the r&d for the markets in which they operate on the combustion theory and practice of these engine.

Enlightenment of if there are any substantiated benefits are a seperate topic, for which there is interesting experience around what that may entail.

Just because one person "states" their reading of a topic has no benefits doesn't mean they don't exist. That's what exploratory research seeks to illuminate.

There was electricity existing on this planet essentially forever, which would nobody knew about. The curios "discovered" it and changed the way of thinking.

There's plenty of combustion characteristic research available that's progressed since these bikes were designed (that will always happen) I've put links before that drew no interest in that topic, that I believe shifts perception of support systems.

Penicillin, another development example.

Offline SteveD CB500K0

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2022, 11:53:09 AM »
Is there much broadcast (analogue) radio left for us to interfere with?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
2022 Tiger Sport 660
1971 CB500K0

Offline Bryanj

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2022, 11:57:50 AM »
Dunno, but find one and i will!

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2022, 12:49:04 PM »
Interference, locally there's a scooter that passes here that properly crackles through the freeview tv signal. No other vehicle just that one and very prominent in #46 replica graphic, usually wheelying too  :)

RF interference on most original fuel injection system too as I understand it, particularly with analogue MAF (mass airflow meter) needing competent screening to avoid anomalies. More have moved to digital report now. 

Offline Sesman

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2022, 12:54:41 PM »
Dunno, but find one and i will!
;D

 ;D ;D ;D

Offline deltarider

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2022, 01:06:25 PM »
Here is my personal view on the matter. The combustion engine is but the next step in locomotion right after the steam engine (and it is about time we kick it into oblivion  ;)). Where on a steam engine the stoker had to add coal to an already burning fire, say at every telegraph pole, the combustion engine begins with putting the mixture in and then throws a match at it. I know, I know, all put very simple, but just for the perspective.
Now our way of interpreting phenomena has also been evaluated and thanks to progress in digitization, we are now used to pin point accuracy. However to project such precision on a process as primitive as a fire place like in the combustion chambre, doesn't touch either side (if that's the correct expression). Every combustion cycle differs from its predecessor and its successor and the margins are wide. Personally I have no reason to doubt the advice given by Honda France and Honda The Netherlands and I find the fact that 10kΩ caps are not even available anymore, telling. From school I vaguely remember something about Rc time, but I won't even look it up. Don't get me wrong. I have always been open to a possible effect on spark duration, but... whether you will experience any benefit of it, is another thing... I doubt it. I find the fact that there's no mentioning of such a beneficial effect in the automotive literature, not even in Steinbuch's - I don't know how many volumes - masterpiece, very telling.
In the dark ages among scolars (scolastics I should say) there has been much discussion about how many angels could sit on the tip of a needle and frankly... I find that discussion more interesting.
But - as always - I'm easy to convince. Just don't expect me to help you: I have already done my share.  Furthermore I like to stress this is the internet here and you never know if someone's primary goal is to present himself as an expert. If the phenomena cannot be seen, let alone be repeated and nobody can present any more substantiation than a 'Mr. so and so', said it, we enter the domain of religion.

Offline Seabeowner

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Re: Plug caps and plugs
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2022, 07:09:00 PM »
I bought Denso X22ES-U (code 4090) for my 500 from Greenspark but haven't tried them yet.
My US import 500 was fitted with 7.5k ohm caps (No R plugs) which may well have been original as it only had a few thousand miles on it.
Phil
1971  CB500K0  Candy Jade Green
1973  CB500K1  Candy Ruby Red
1975  CB550F1   Shiny Orange
1978  CB550K     Excel Black

 

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