400 Four Oil filter - "genuine" or "aftermarket" ?

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

I agree I would never change the oil without also replacing the filter.
I'm also  a fan of Hi-Flo & Mahle filters.

[K2-K6]

There exists the delicious irony that if the oil performance is as you"d really hope it would be, any platform for judging a filter is not there 

[Oddjob]

I've got to say I also never change the oil without changing the filter. Just seems wrong not to do and the cost was never prohibitive. 

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

There exists the delicious irony that if the oil performance is as you"d really hope it would be, any platform for judging a filter is not there 

About 8/10 years ago I came across a US site where a private individual looked at various brands of screw on type replacement oil filters on the market doing a pretty comprehensive job of dismantling them to show the different types of material used, how the drain back valves worked comparing  what you got for your money.
Sadly I did not keep the link but it was very interesting reading some of the findings over a period of time as he developed his knowledge and improved his testing methods.

[Oddjob]

I've also seen that Ted.

I seem to recall that the OE filters were made of better paper.  The main difference was the filter paper and not many of the aftermarket filters came close. Some were pretty appalling at filtering TBH.

[McCabe-Thiele (Ted)]

Yes it was Ken, at the time we had a Nissan r3mR that came with a set of new fillter from the PO they were branded Boschi.

When I fitted the new oil filter the oil light took ages to go out after the car had stood for a few minutes. I did not move it off our drive I went to a local firm & fitted a Mahle one - problem sorted - poor valve unit in the canister.

[Oddjob]

I was watching one yesterday with someone from Poland? doing the testing.

He said something pretty interesting which I didn't know. It sounds plausible so maybe it's correct.

One of the test was for flow rate, a litre of oil was suspended over a container which had a portion of the filter paper inside it, the oil was timed to see how long it took to pass through the paper using just gravity. What he did mention though was that the oil needed to be warm, 30 degrees I seem to recall. If it was cold the oil just didn't pass through, or it did but like 2 drops every minute. So he claimed the oil in the engine bypasses the filter via the relief valve until it's thin enough to pass through the filter, not something I was aware of but is it true?

[Bryanj]

Doubtful Ken the pump pressure beats gravity by a helluva lot

[Trigger]

Doubtful Ken the pump pressure beats gravity by a helluva lot

How many PSI is gravity Bryan 

[K2-K6]

Doubtful Ken the pump pressure beats gravity by a helluva lot

How many PSI is gravity Bryan 

There is a relationship there that has an effect. If he put more volume there, above the test site, it should exercise more pressure on the membrane from increase in mass. And why waterproof stats give hydrostatic pressure figure to illustrate this, I brlieve.

I've seen it the other way round, having to pump liquid up floors in a building, arranged for pump etc but it couldn't lift the liquid at that specific gravity the required amount, as soon as the tube filled up the pump head couldn't exert enough pressure to move that column.  Had to use expensive high pressure stainless steel pump heads and reduce the pipe diameter to get it lifted effectively.

Also, if you reduce pressure in a pipe then even Mercury will be pulled up as you've reduced atmospheric pressure acting on that mass from 14.7psi to lower and let effectively made the Mercury mass less, how vac tube carb sync gauges work.

And another thing, where  the moon is in relation to earth, it's own gravity in opposition to earth's then causes the sea water to rise, as in the tidal movement.

I'm nowhere near good enough at physics to place maths on top of this 

[Trigger]

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[K2-K6]

The competent filter manufacturers should be able to produce filters that at minimum can't give any problems, structurally or other issues.

Cost is obviously a consideration through whichever channels they are bought, whatever their maker. But ultimately can't absolutely show technical performance just by that metric.

The question with DS choice more nuanced, which manufacturer made it ? And if we don't know that we can't have a reliable technical performance either. In addition, if that supply just buys any maker that is then sold on, are there any supporting analysis if there's a mix of these manufacturers?  And how would DS know and corellate any failure with batch production identification or similar. Id doubt if there's anything in the way of report on real performance from their two lines offered, or could be wrong there.

It seems that both Honda and Hi-flo brands are well regarded and most definitely their experience is available to back up their manufacturing competency.

Unspecified brands, who knows in reality, and do you want to verify it with your own bike ?

[Nurse Julie]

Doubtful Ken the pump pressure beats gravity by a helluva lot

How many PSI is gravity Bryan 

There is a relationship there that has an effect. If he put more volume there, above the test site, it should exercise more pressure on the membrane from increase in mass. And why waterproof stats give hydrostatic pressure figure to illustrate this, I brlieve.

I've seen it the other way round, having to pump liquid up floors in a building, arranged for pump etc but it couldn't lift the liquid at that specific gravity the required amount, as soon as the tube filled up the pump head couldn't exert enough pressure to move that column.  Had to use expensive high pressure stainless steel pump heads and reduce the pipe diameter to get it lifted effectively.

Also, if you reduce pressure in a pipe then even Mercury will be pulled up as you've reduced atmospheric pressure acting on that mass from 14.7psi to lower and let effectively made the Mercury mass less, how vac tube carb sync gauges work.

And another thing, where  the moon is in relation to earth, it's own gravity in opposition to earth's then causes the sea water to rise, as in the tidal movement.

I'm nowhere near good enough at physics to place maths on top of this 

This is basic biology and physiology surely 😂😂😂😂 For a pump to work at its optimum efficiency, the volume and viscosity of the given fluid needs to be at its 'standard' norms for it to pump correctly. If a pump is designed to do it's optimum job, as an example, with the heart and blood pressure, two factors need to be determined. The amount of blood the heart pumps (volume) and how hard it is for the blood to move through the arteries (force) . The more blood the heart pumps and the narrower the arteries, the higher the blood pressure. So by thinning the blood artificially by say Warfarin, although the volume stays the same, the less force is required to be exerted by the pump to give the same outcome.
Therefore, going back to the oil filter question, it would appear that the viscosity of the oil would be a major factor in determining the volume of oil moved as a PSI rate 😁😁😁😁😁😁

[Athame57]

... as an example, with the heart and blood pressure, two factors need to be determined. The amount of blood the heart pumps (volume) and how hard it is for the blood to move through the arteries (force) . The more blood the heart pumps and the narrower the arteries, the higher the blood pressure. So by thinning the blood artificially by say Warfarin, although the volume stays the same, the less force is required to be exerted by the pump to give the same outcome.

Oh Julie
Now you've got me checking my pulse and feeling dodgy!!   

[Bryanj]

As i remember it you have tp put an apple on your head and get william to shoot it of, then measure the weight of the brown stuff leaking from your left trouser leg, double it, and the number you first thought of and go back to sleep after 50 hors and 3,000 km in  4 shifts