Rewiring K2 with later high beam switch

[the-chauffeur]

Guys

I'm putting the finishing touches to my K2 rebuild and I'm at the point of fitting the headlight, but I've run into a few snags with the wiring - mainly that I've got more spare unconnected wires than there seems to be space/need for.  I'm getting my head round it slowly, but was wondering if anyone else has added one of the left hand mount plastic high beam switches to a K2, and if so, what changes needed to be made to the connections?

Coming out of the RHS switchgear, I've now got the following connectors:

Red/yellow - connect to starter circuit
Black - connect to cut out circuit
Black/white - connects to cut out circuit
Black - connects to lighting circuit
Brown/white - connects to instrument light circuit
Blue - high beam circuit
White - main beam circuit

Yellow?
White/Yellow?

All the diagrams I've seen say there should be 7/8 wires out of the RHS - can't quite understand why I've got 9.

From the high beam switch:

Brown with blue stripe
Black

I have a feeling I may need to undo a few of the existing connections and reroute them, but like I say, I'm struggling a bit.  Any advice as to what needs to go where would be great.  Oh BTW - I've tested all the other circuits and they work fine (brake lights, tail light, indicators, horn, neutral switch, oil pressure switch).  I 'spose that's what's referred to as a good start . . .

And something else that has just occurred to me - the bike is a European spec K2, which means it has a sidelight (for want of a better word). The lights should, therefore, have four positions - off, sidelight, headlight and high beam.  Unfortunately, I don't think this is going to be an easy job - with the K2 switchgear, there doesn't seem to be any way to have the main beam and full beam on at the same time - it's one or the other.  Guess that's why occasionally everything used to go dark when switching between the two.

[Bryanj]

That RH switch ain't a 500 as they never had yellow or yellow white, i think that was 450

What you can do is fit the 750 round on/off switch and route the power out of that to the dip switch in the headlamp bucket, then leave all the lighting wires in the RH switch disconnected just using the kill and starter.
On/off switch is  35150-300-730, screw is 93500-04016OA

[the-chauffeur]

Hey Bryan

Thanks very much for that.  You're quite right about the 450 wires - guess I must've mixed up my internals when I put the 750 one back together.  Ignoring the white/yellow and yellow wires makes a lot more sense.

I've already got one of those plastic hi-beam switches - that's the bit I was referring to previously.  The problem I think I've got now is that I can't run the main and full beams at the same time - which is kinda what I wanted to do.  Also, I've got one of the left hand switches that has a passing/flash setting - and combining the wiring for that with the wiring from the RHS confuses me even further.

I might just leave the wiring for now.  I fired up the 750 for the first time in about a year earlier on today.  It's going to take quite a lot of messing around with to get it to run right, and I've already found a couple of little leaks that are going to require the pipes off.  Meantime, I've got another electrical issue - the neutral switch doesn't seem to switch off (I think that's a little unusual).  I'm guessing the switch isn't seated properly or the o-ring isn't compressed enough, 'cos the gears engage fine . . .

Any thoughts on that one?

Cheers



BTW - the clutch is noisy as hell; I know it's the clutch 'cos it goes when the lever is pulled in.  I'm hoping a carb balance will tone that down.

[SteveD CB500K0]

BTW - the clutch is noisy as hell; I know it's the clutch 'cos it goes when the lever is pulled in.  I'm hoping a carb balance will tone that down.

Dead cert symptoms for unbalanced carbs.

[Bryanj]

Neutral light on could be trapped wire and why do you want both beams on? Generator can't cope with that

[the-chauffeur]

Ah - OK.  Don't want to fry the generator, so I'll work out what to do with the wiring later.

I'm pleased to say the neutral switch turned out to be a simple fix - I'd put the little locating plate in upside down.  Turned it over, did up the bolt and it pushed the switch further into the mount - which meant that when the drum turned, the ball bearing was depressed far enough to switch the neutral light off.

I'm less pleased to say that whilst trying to get the engine set up yesterday - carb balancing and so on to try and cut the clutch rattle down - it got very hot and started squeaking.  Couldn't locate the source of the squeak, and pulled the plugs to make sure it hadn't overheated and/or reduce the danger of it seizing.  The engine's undergone a rebore, new gaskets and seals and heavy duty studs, new bearings throughout (plain and ball), new chains, camshaft, valves and all sorts.  I also had some 2 stroke oil in the petrol to give the pistons an easy-ish time.  And I know from using the kickstart it's got great compression.

So anyways, I had too much oil in the engine - following Hondaman's guidance, I'd filled the oil pump before fitting it and that (in part) threw off my filling calculations.  I'm hoping the squeak - and the quick heating up - was caused by oil overfill increasing the crankcase pressures and maybe oil squeaking up past one of the pistons.  One of the spark plugs looked more oil-fouled than the others, and since the valve guides and seals were all replaced, that could explain what was going on there.  I don't s'pose it helps that I was working on the bike in a sheltered (read warm-ish) garage with little airflow, which wouldn't aid cooling at all.  But at least I know oil was getting up into the head - taking two valve caps off it was spitting out.

After draining some oil off, I've run the bike briefly this morning, and it seems to be OK.  It's not MOT'd yet, so I can't take it out and ride it around, but I'm hoping to get that rectified later this week.  I'm just praying the squeak isn't something more serious - I've just had to overhaul the top end of my 450 because a shop I'd asked to set it up moved 2 of the rocker adjusters too far and the shafts have been running eccentrically in their journal holders.  The really worrying thing for me is that the giveaway was that it was squeaking, too . . .

Hoping for some good news.

[the-chauffeur]

Well, the squeaking noise turned out to be bad news.  From cold it seemed quiet . . .

 . . . so I got the bike as far as the MOT garage and home again (about 3 miles all round), but about halfway back the bike started protesting - more squeaking and hard running.  Just about made it home and it died.  Pulled the plugs again and things weren't looking great on #4 so I took the rocker cover off (thank God for the removable frame section over the top of the engine).  Long story short, no oil has been getting to top RHS.

Yup, the lack of anything coming out of the oil jet in the head on the RHS has caused the brand new camshaft and cam tower/caps to lunch themselves, burned the rocker faces and caused some wear on the rocker arms.  Pardon my language, but #@%$ me, I'm not having any luck with this bike.  This is my third attempt to get the engine rebuilt and I went all out to do it properly (pistons/valves/rebore/headwork/allsorts) and spent ages making sure I'd got everything right - only to have it all screwed up by (I'm guessing) a 1mm hole.

The head's still on, so I can't tell whether it's the jet that's failed or something lower down, but I'll get there soon enough.  What's more disconcerting is what I'm going to find in the barrels - I'm praying the bores/pistons aren't damaged.  Where the RH end has been running dry, it's ground itself up and there's a quantity of fine paste trapped inside the tower footprint; there's also some very small quantities of fine dust outside of the tower, but since there's been no oil circulating down that end, I'm desperately hoping none of it has gone south.

Another (K4 I think) head is on its way with most of the top end bits I need, but I really don't need this now.  At least next time (!?!?!) I'll know to build the top end onto the engine while it's in the frame and test the jets before putting the towers on.

[UK Pete]

Hi Niel , that is real bad news, i feel the hurt for you, i am not sure if you remember my post but when i put my F2 together i heard strange noises and so i cut the frame open removed the rocker cover only to find my cam sprocket nuts working themselves loose, anyway when i rectified the problem i also took the opportunity to turn the engine over and check that oil was making its way up to the cam towers , it is something i will always do from now on with my sohc bikes as i have heard so many stories of blocked oil jets,
As you say your luck in rebuilding this engine has been really bad, if you want a second pair of eyes and a bit of assistance remember i am 5 minutes away from you and i can pop round for any support or help you may need,
Dont let it get you down, at the end of the day  it will all be worth it and you will look back and laugh at it all or cry at the money side of things

Pete

[Bryanj]

Sorry to hear that mate, i don't got any more towers like the ones you had before but i can find you a "runner" if you need it.

[kaceyk2]

Got a nice pair of towers should you need. ( of a late K8 and in great shape)
sad to hear this happened to a new built motor, theres a lesson for all here, at the very least blow an airline through the towers with some oil before fitting and check the oil is coming out where it should be?

Guys something else here, I have seen folks on two stroke forums say this as well and it is pure rubbish,
Do not add two stroke oil to fuel to "give things an easy time " It has the opposite effect.

If you water your fuel down with two stroke oil, your still sucking the same amount of air in, but now with LESS fuel, you have just given your newly built motor a weak mixture, which makes it run HOT, this is EXACTLY what you didn't want to be doing. Especially so to a motor that is still tight.

The same applies to newly built two stroke motors, it will make them run Weak and therefore HOtter, and with a newly built motor, bad news.

Suzuki, for instance NEVER had the autolube pump set higher for run in periods, this is just plain wrong, right from straight out of the crate, it was set where it always should be, take a screw out of the left hand carb, when the throttle is opened till the dot shows, it should line up with a marker on the pump.
This is how they came brand new out of the crate.
 Two strokes /four strokes the same rule applies: add two stroke oil to the fuel, it will run weak and therefore hotter.

[the-chauffeur]

Thanks chaps - and special tip o' the hat to KC for the 2-stroke oil warning notes.

Having had a sit-down-and-keep-it-together session, I set to pulling the top end apart to try to trace the blockage.  Much to my surprise, it wasn't the jet - that turned out to be fine.  With the head off, I cranked the kickstart to pump oil through the oil passageways and found that there was nothing coming up the RHS cylinder stud that feeds the head.  Barrels off too - and they're fine in case you were wondering - and stud out, and the blockage turned out to be something (I'm still not entirely sure what) in the crankcase jet that feeds into the RHS stud gap.  
 
Spiked that hole with a long, thin pokey stick and something gave - I'm damn sure I did that to both sides before I started reassembly, but obviously not hard enough - and cranking the kickstart pushed equal amounts of oil through both L and R feed holes.  I pumped some cc's though just to make sure it wasn't going to jam up again, and then took the RHS oil gallery cap off so I could have a look along the length of the engine.  Nothing obviously amiss there, but just to be sure I made a cleaning out stick from of a long piece of thin threaded rod with a nut on the end, and covered the nut with a small piece of cloth (I needed something that was just wide enough to feed in without touching the sides and pull out again whilst resting on one side to pick up any junk).  

Again, nothing too sinister there, so I'm kinda concluding the blockage was a couple of beads of vapour blast media that had stuck together and wouldn't shift; the sharp poke broke the surface tension between them and they fell apart.  The gallery was shiny and empty after the rod cleaning, so once the new head turns up, I'll clean and modify the towers, and mount them without any other cam train parts.  I'll then use the kickstart again to make sure the oil flow is fine.  The only other things I needed for reassembly were a new base gasket, some of the round rubber pucks that go under the cam towers and the teeny-tiny o-rings that go round the jets and blanking holes at each end of the towers.  Having rebuilt the engine three times now (don't ask), I had spares knocking about.

Rockers and rocker arms have been polished and I now can't really tell the difference between the ones that were on the RHS and the ones on the LHS - thank God for hardened faces/rods. Looks like the only real damage was to the cam shaft journal and the RHS tower, probably 'cos I ran it for such a short time.  Yeah - it could have been much worse (Pete - the same self-removing cam sprocket bolt trouble as yours caused this most recent rebuild; mine cut into the rocker cover and sent metal bits all through the engine . . .).

And I cannot begin to explain just how much time, effort and pain the removable frame section has saved.  The ability to remove the top end with the engine in the frame meant that I could pull off some bits, diagnose the trouble, put most of the bits back on, all without having to disassemble half the bike (or scratch the frame in the process.  Equally, I can test the oil feed with the kickstart, pump and tank in place; that'd've been a hell of a job out of the frame.  Right now, the bike is 95% complete - I only need to add the head components and rocker cover and we're off again.  Without any fear of contradiction, that frame mod kit has already more than paid for itself.

Not bad, huh?  Didn't exactly turn out nice again, but this time it's much easier than I thought it would be . . .

[Bryanj]

Years back had a man who ground the cam journals round again and machined half round Phosphour Bronze bushes that were pegged into the towers---It is possible so DO NOT bin anything, at some time in the future those bits may be re-used!!!

[the-chauffeur]

 . . . 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . and we're back in the room.

All done.  Everything's buttoned up and I ran the bike this morning to see how we were going - leaving the exhaust valve caps off 1 and 4 to check the flow.  Got it started and had a quick look with a torch - yup, got some flow going on there.  Stood back to take the choke off and generally admire the handiwork before noticing the oil pressure had charged itself up properly and oil's spraying out of both caps.  Don't think I'm gonna have any problems with the valve train being oiled properly . . . having said that, a quick ride has revealed the top is perhaps now oiling a little too well 'cos there's oil coming out of the upper fins.  Guess I didn't use enough sealant on the pucks and on the ends of the bolt threads. Still, sorting that out with the top section off should only take about an hour and I'm gonna replace the head with the newer one sooner or later.

I gotta also figure out how to get the engine to idle between the two points where it seems to gravitate to - either 600rpm or 1,400rpm.  I thought the timing was right and the carbs were synched, but I guess I'll have to try all that again.  I have a feeling something's blowing/not firing right as well, but again, that's easy enough to check out.

Getting there - again . . .

[the-chauffeur]

Hmmm.  I spoke a little too soon.

There's good news - jetwashed the engine and it turns out the stuff on the upper fins was just residual oil from the headwork that had dried and then solidified when it heated up.  There's no leaks from the top end.

However, the not-so-good news is that the joint where the barrels meet the crankcase at the front of the engine (i.e. around the base gasket) leaks.  Quite a lot.  I'm sure I had this happen before when a shop put the engine back together.  That time one of the rubber rings that goes round the base of the individual cylinders had been poked up too high into its recess, causing the leak and the oil pressure warning light came on.  This could be the same deal (without the oil pressure light) - or it's the areas where the surplus oil drains back into the crankcase from up in the head.  Either way, it's all got to come apart again (take head and barrels off).  Arse it.  Oh well, I'm getting used to it now.

There's also white exhaust coming out of 3 and 4.  They're the same end where the camshaft lunched itself, but I have a feeling they're exhaust leaks (the joints from the headers to the head aren't exactly wonderful).  It also wouldn't surprise me if the valve seals had hardened with overheating and now leak a bit.  Guess I'll have a look see while I'm in there - again.  

[UK Pete]

Neil, the cost for gaskets and o rings alone must be mounting up, still as you say you are now getting used to  taking apart and reassembling the engine so time wise it should be a doddle
When i build engines i use blue hylomar or copper grease on the gasket surfaces depending on where it is just to aid sealing, it seemed to work a treat on my F2
Anyway chin up mate your get there in the end, i am hoping your next post on the subject will be full of joy, you deserve a bit of luck
Pete