Electric problem

[bomber]

I feel like over two days i took over the forum and I can not express how happy I am with all the comments and suggestions, thank you all very much!
Here we go another issue...
How should i fix this?
First picture is of rectifier and not sure if you can see it but on the red cable there is a hole burned from inside plus a weird white "dust" it doesnt look like DS or wemoto sell this kind of cables/connectors, do I have to buy new regulator/rectifier or can i try to take cables off and clean them.
Second picture is of a positive cable which fix to the battery, think it desperatly needs replacing... I was browsing the forum and still have not idea what kind of cable should i get to replace it. I'm thinking this should do the trick :
Ref: SSP/N
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/battconns/battleads.php

Pictured is positive cable but the negative looks similar and I think think it is to blame form my bikes poor charging and general miss behaving.

Any suggestions?

[bomber]

Picture 1
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[bomber]

Struggling with uploads of pictures...
Just realised it was over 300kb

So, picture 2

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[mick]

Hi Bomber that just likes corrosion you will be ok unplugging the connecters and giving everything a good clean  , is that the battery earth lead or live lead?

if you have a look on cmsnl for your bike you will be able to get all the part numbers etc and then you could search Dave Silvers site for them  cheers Mick.

[Trigger]

Picture 1, as Mick said, it just needs a good clean. Picture 2, throw it in he bin if it's the live, cut it back if it's the earth. As long its still long enough to reach the battery.

[bomber]

DS doesn't have them, think it is easily available to buy from electric shops so they can't be bothered
I pasted a link to website which have a cables which look's similar, thought some body might have bought replacement from them.
Is this specification correct? "16mm2 cables with crimped on 8mm rings"
I thought they where 6mm rings, since I'm not going to be in garage today thought I pick one of you guys "brains"

As for cleaning connectors, it is easy enough with a "male parts" as they ehmm stucking out
But how to get to the bits inside the white blocks?? think there must be a better way then a sand paper on a ice cream stick...

[Lobo]

Hi Bomber,
Yup, you've got good corrosion by the rectifier... a dismantle & clean (no short cuts that I know of) the only way to go. The burned hole is likely due a connection beginning to fail (you'll likely see the copper wires badly corroded) in which case a 'remanufacture' of that loom piece may honestly save the false economy of a fingers crossed bodge. It'll be more obvious with the boot off.... that red/white is too short to cut-back and you might have to solder in a splice, or replace the red/white all the way back to the loom plug. (or find a second hand one ebay?)
Honestly not a drama replacing a wire, though you do want to have a new spade connector up-front & a decent crimper - unlikely money wasted as will be used many times over. The loom plug pin will withdraw by poking a mini blade screwdriver etc into the plug & releasing the barb which holds that connector pin in place. (you will have to re-use / solder to this pin so go carefully here)

As for the battery +ve lead.... buy a new one and as your starter motor draws approx 120Amps at load ensure it meets this rating minimum - ie choose say 135A or 170A. The lugs will depend upon your battery connection.... mine are 6mm bolts. Bare back enough copper to go all the way into the lug & then flood with solder & this should do the trick.
Try shopping here..

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/category/24

Good luck,
Simon

PS - I might know of a seller who has the rectifier + loom + connector plug for a 400F. You'll have to do the homework but if the same for your bike may save hassle. Won't publish it here but if interested pm me & I'll send you his link.

[bomber]

Thank you Lobo but will try to fix my loom rather then replace it, it might take me some time but hope I will be able to understand it better this way.

I had a quick look and there are few other issues...
My head lamp is H4 60/55W and since it is draining my battery I'm thinking to replace it with H4 45/45w it will still be 10W more then Honda intended but it should work right, is any one using 45/45?

Also, where should be negative cable from battery be fixed to? frame right, can any one of you nice people send me a picture of where it should be? I suspect on my bike it is not in right place as it should be fixed to the bear metal of the frame, not thru bushing of some sort.

Another thing is I have strange cable I suppose earth going form negative terminal all the way to ignition coil, it looks like a recent upgrade...

Again thank you very much for comments.

[Trigger]

Just sent you a PM that should sort your problem out.

[Bryanj]

Earth cable should go to the large rear engine mounting boly outside the removeable bracket BUT there should be NO paint on the bracket whete it touches the engine OR where the cable sits.

There ought to be an earth wire in the loom goinrg to the coil brackets BUT also there should be no paint where the bracket attaches

[Lobo]

Hi again Bomber,

Regarding the (bad looking) main cables to your battery (ie Picture #2) and your comment, "I think this is to blame for the bike's poor charging & general misbehaving".....
If the electric start is cranking the engine then these lousy looking cables are still capable of carrying 120A or so.... Ie way above any max charging current which, for the CB750 is approx 13A.

In other words, despite their condition they are unlikely to be blamed for charging issues. (but still need replacing)

The red / white wire from the rectifier is basically the charge coming from your alternator, and likely terminates at one main lug of the starter solenoid. From here (the same lug) the charging current continues (via the heavy duty red cable) to the positive battery connector.
If you are having charging problems my guess is its in this red / white lead given your photo of burning through the rubber insulator - ie the connector area is corroded to the point it can't efficiently carry the current needed & so begins to overheat....
I agree that if able to fix yourself; well it's always better for obvious reasons, but as suggested don't 'bodge' as whilst some roadside repairs are easy, electrical gremlins are not!

You mention your 60W headlamp was draining the battery.... on a healthy CB550 I'd be surprised given the alternator's capability... and this too indicates a charging problem. (let's say you're running night load might be 60W head, + 5W tail, + 20W brake, + 40W indicators, + 20W alternator field coils etc = 145W, divide by 12V ...  to give a current draw of approx 12A..... right up there agreed, but you generally don't ride around with the brake light on / indicators flashing. (ie 'normal night load of (60+5+20) / 12 = 7Amps or so.... easily within the alternator output.

Yesterday I said I knew of no short cut to cleaning connectors etc (still true!) - but a useful tool is a small Dremel with the small various wire wheel attachments they offer.

Anyways, good luck, a basic 400F diagram which may not be accurate, but will be approximate until you can lay your hands on a quality one pertinent to the 500/550F
(the rectifier is bottom right, the Alternator the blue circle left of this)

Simon

[bomber]

Thanks lobo for explanation, much appreciated.
I had a closer look at the connections and to my surprise they are riveted to rectifier?!
I'm confident that there is just enough red/white cable to fix it but will have to loose black sleeve.

I have ordered cables as you suggested, went for 170 might be over kill but it will definitely let juices flow easier then now

I have been looking for a while at the dremel you mentioned, I'm afraid for now elbow grease will have to do 

I have another question, what are cable specification which is used in loom? I have seen a post while back which I cant find any longer, can some one point me in right direction?

Many thanks

[bomber]

Found that post!
The recommendation was 32/0.20mm, 1mm2, 16.5amp.

Thanks to the-chauffeur and LesterPiglet!

[Lobo]

Aha, great!

Ok, just to further help (?); your bike's main fuses are rated @ 15A (?).... and so basically chose a spec of wiring that is greater than this...

http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/category/10

If you look here, you'll be given an option of 'Standard' or 'Thin walled' cabling, ... read the intro blurb. I think (somebody confirm?) that the thin walled, whilst lighter & more robust, is 'stiffer' and a bit more of a pain to bend / use... but it's the industry standard & so obviously ok.

For 'end of looms' ... eg a block connector to an indicator bulb, or the switched feed to the horn (etc) you can go for a lower / lighter spec of wire using the formula in my previous posting... ie Watts / Volts. .... eg a single indicator @ 21W / 12V would imply only 2A spec necessary for the stalk wiring. But why make life complicated... my Honda is the same gauge wire throughout its loom BARRING that red / white charge & main feed to the ignition... I seem to recall.

Yup, now remember the 'riveted' connections to the rectifier (I recon'd my 400 loom last year), I guess Honda want to guarantee a good & vibration proof connection. My guess is you have this at the spade... but the actual copper strands into the spade are badly corroded. If this is the case you'll have your work cut out paring it back to good / fresh copper.... and again, good luck!

Simon

[Lobo]

... just something else Bomber... You said above

"Another thing is I have strange cable I suppose earth going from negative terminal all the way to ignition coil, it looks like a recent upgrade..."

.... &  gotta say, this sounds a bit odd. Are you sure it actually connects to the coils.... or as Brian says, "there ought to be a cable in the loom going to the coil BRACKETS" (this wire will be likely Green, and earthing the coil units to the frame versus directly connecting to the coils wires.

Point is, the L & R coils, are earthed through (their Yellow & Blue wires) and the contact breakers. If a permanent earth was fed to these wires you'd never achieve a spark, and the engine (obviously) wouldn't run.

The other wires (blacks) are 'live' in, and via a common feed from the ignition switch & through the kill (emergency) switch. (which is why you shouldn't leave the kill switch on with ignition (engine off) as current will run through the coil and complete its circuit to earth if a contact breaker is closed... ie you may burn out that coil)

Bottom line, if your coils input wires are somehow directly earthed from the battery then I'm flummoxed!

In the neat sketch below (alas not mine) the tail & head lamps are obviously missing their earth connections.... I guess the intention being they're mounted to the frame. Starter motor & Points ditto. I reckon the 'Acc' position is 'Accessories'?

Simon