Author Topic: Timing Electronic Ignition?  (Read 3819 times)

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2024, 01:38:51 PM »
Yes checked that.   A&R plate correctly mounted on the crank, new ignition rotor is marked with a red dot which is aligned to the TF14 mark on the plate.

This would flip the mechanical triggering, any possibility of swapping it by 180 degree to test that way  ?

If not, it should run if you swap the coil connections to the wrong way round. It'll have two errors but be corrected to ignite as it should. Not necessarily a solution, but that would prove the error to then understand why that's so.

Offline PennoK3

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2024, 01:50:39 PM »
Yes, everything fits as it should, all original parts are TEC.

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2024, 04:31:14 PM »
Then might be as Nigel has said your advancer might be 180 deg out.
Have you had the advancer apart?

Did you originally have the left side CB points connected to the blue  wire for cylinders 1 & 4 with the blue wire at the coil end supplying the spark for cylinder1 & 4 plug leads?

« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 06:01:54 PM by McCabe-Thiele (Ted) »
Honda CB400NA Superdream (current money puddle)
Honda CB500 K1 (second money pit)
https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,28541.0.html
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html
This is a neat 500 restoration in the USA.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,151576.msg1731556.html#msg1731556

Offline PennoK3

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2024, 07:23:34 PM »
Advancer has not been apart, blue points on the left, yellow points on the right.   Blue coil to 1 and 4 plugs.

Offline McCabe-Thiele (Ted)

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2024, 08:16:17 PM »
I'm not familiar with the DS unit does it need a power supply or is that okay as the red light illuminates.

I've run out of ideas - I assume you have nipped up at least one of the base plates screws to give a good earth.
Honda CB400NA Superdream (current money puddle)
Honda CB500 K1 (second money pit)
https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,28541.0.html
Honda CB400 four super sport (first money pit)
Link to my full restoration http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.0.html
This is a neat 500 restoration in the USA.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,151576.msg1731556.html#msg1731556

Offline deltarider

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2024, 08:27:44 PM »
Here's a pic of the TEC advancer. Note that the tiny mark in the rim (in white rectangular) should oppose the hole (dito).

Offline PennoK3

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2024, 09:09:04 PM »
I'm lining it up against the second mark (5 degrees).

Offline Murf

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2024, 01:29:56 AM »
I don’t think the 3 holding bolts are evenly spaced, so maybe if you rotate the pcb board  and try the 3 possible positions it could fit you may find a position where the 3 bolts are at the end of the slots with the board in the fully clockwise position.  This may then be the correct location for the board and you will be able to time it. Just a guess really but maybe worth a try.

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2024, 08:49:50 AM »
I'm lining it up against the second mark (5 degrees).

It's the two little white boxes marked onto the mech picture that you need to check.

They are the orientation of the cam timing lobe that controls when it fires. It can be installed 180 degree opposite to that which is correct, then give this fault.

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2024, 09:00:10 AM »
I don’t think the 3 holding bolts are evenly spaced, so maybe if you rotate the pcb board  and try the 3 possible positions it could fit you may find a position where the 3 bolts are at the end of the slots with the board in the fully clockwise position.  This may then be the correct location for the board and you will be able to time it. Just a guess really but maybe worth a try.
The board only fits in one position so that the  hole in it allows you to view the static timing mark cast into the crankcase. 

If it fires (the light changes status here) on the opposite cylinder marking of rotor, then one of three things is wrong.

1) the cam rotor is fitted backwards, as noted in post above. It could already have been installed like that for points, then the two coil wires transposed to correct it on the original installation of this bike. You'd not know as it would run without problem.
2) the board is wrong in its two firing pickup being swapped from manufacturer. Unlikely, but possible.
3)the instructions are written incorrectly with regard to the light showing on or off at the cylinder 1&4 position indicated marks on rotor.  Not unknown, have had a ignition product from secondary manufacturer before where they'd transposed the two wiring colours in instruction to make it incorrect, but had everyone involved scratching their head.

Offline PennoK3

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2024, 09:28:55 AM »
Here's a pic of the TEC advancer. Note that the tiny mark in the rim (in white rectangular) should oppose the hole (dito).

Yes, the orientation of the rotor is as the picture.

Offline PennoK3

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2024, 09:30:23 AM »
Thanks for all your suggestions so far guys. I'll give it another look this evening.

Offline K2-K6

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2024, 02:12:12 PM »
OK, found some instructions for installation on t-web  :)

Undo the centre small nut, take off the big nut on end of crank  ..... now where is the red spot located on the aluminium pulse trigger wheel  ?

That spot should be aligned with the "1 & 4" marks of the Honda advance and retard mech. If that's opposite (next to 1&2) then it'll do what it's doing now, that's firing the setup at 180 degree away from intended operation.

I was viewing the manual/instructions for install on the SOHC USA site for reference.

Offline PennoK3

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Re: Timing Electronic Ignition?
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2024, 05:25:05 PM »
OK, found some instructions for installation on t-web  :)

Undo the centre small nut, take off the big nut on end of crank  ..... now where is the red spot located on the aluminium pulse trigger wheel  ?

That spot should be aligned with the "1 & 4" marks of the Honda advance and retard mech. If that's opposite (next to 1&2) then it'll do what it's doing now, that's firing the setup at 180 degree away from intended operation.

I was viewing the manual/instructions for install on the SOHC USA site for reference.


Yes the red spot is correctly aligned.   I've gone through the installation again today and think I've cracked it through some very careful movement of the electronic board and a combination of completing a full cycle once the LED is lit and positioning with the power off.   But it now lights in line with the F1,4 mark and extinguishes after the F 2,3 mark which should be correct.   However, in this position there is almost no adjustment left in the bottom right slot on the PCB.

Unfortunately, I can't try a start as I've taken the carbs off to sort a leaky float valve.

Thanks again for all your help and suggestions.