OEM colour label?

[ST1100]

Hi,

screened all frame tubes, couldn't find a [paint sticker]... (maybe removed by POs during their unqualified tinkering...)

So how to determine the OEM colour the bike came out the factory??
The title does not tell anything there.

Its a '76 CB500 four
frame: 2083333
engine: 2169911
(frame: CB 5001018430
engine: CB 500E-101905)

TIA

cheers!

[deltarider]

Its a '76 CB500 four
frame: 2083333
engine: 2169911
(frame: CB 5001018430
engine: CB 500E-101905)

According to the first two numbers it must be a CB500K2 (ED, F, G). It was a serie marketed (1976-7) on the European continent in countries like: Germany, France, Holland, Italy, Austria, Switzerland and others. ED stands for European Direct Sales. Not imported in UK as far as I know. What the second set numbers mean, I don't know.
These K2s differed from the K2 (A) marketed in the US in 1973 and they came in these three colours:
PB-3C-C Candy sapphire blue
YR-2C Candy garnet brown and
NH-57 Excel Black (see pic below)

I believe the colourcode is on the inside of one of the side panels.

Information found on p. 3-4 in Parts List: CB500K2 (ED, F, G) [1976.05.20]http://www.honda4fun.com/pdf_parts_list/pdf_spac500/CB500-76/CB500-76_1.pdf
P.5 shows you where the frame- and enginenumbers are.
Scroll down here for that appropiate Parts List: http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/parts-list/parts-list-cb500
BTW, what stamped on number do the carbs have?
Can you post a pic of that bike?

[Trigger]

Hi,

screened all frame tubes, couldn't find a [paint sticker]... (maybe removed by POs during their unqualified tinkering...)

So how to determine the OEM colour the bike came out the factory??
The title does not tell anything there.

Its a '76 CB500 four
frame: 2083333
engine: 2169911
(frame: CB 5001018430
engine: CB 500E-101905)

TIA

cheers!

No paint codes back then. Frame and engine starting with CB500 10..... is a CB500K0

[ST1100]

Thanx!
(familiar with the distribution area codes due my ST1100 engagement, no AR (Austria) model back then ;-) )

So are they definitely K2, with the edgy tank decor as shown in your pic (your mount?), or earlier with the significant semicircle decal lining?
Also: "framed" 500-4 badges, or the clean ones on the side covers?

Seems I'll have to inspect the wiring harness/connectors to ID it as true K0 or not...

Will also have to look for any markings on the carbs (provided that their still the originals) and come back to you.

[ST1100]

Did some further research:

Cb500 four K2, G, '73~76:

- Candy Baccus Olive
- Flake Sunrise Orange
- Maxim Brown Metallic
- Candy Saphire Blue

Seems I'll need to contact Honda Austria to inquire if this is a G or ED model and which colour is probably had...

[deltarider]

Did some further research:

Cb500 four K2, G, '73~76:

- Candy Baccus Olive
- Flake Sunrise Orange
- Maxim Brown Metallic
- Candy Saphire Blue

Where did you find that? In Europe the first year for the K2 was 1976. The first three colours you mention are either CB500 or CB500K1.
Here is a good site to check the differences between the CB500, CB500K1 and CB500K2 (ED, F, G) http://www.honda4fun.com/home/faq/generali/111-cb500-differenze-k0-k1-k2. Although in Italian, the pics speak for themselves. Our K2 differed from the K2 in the US three years earlier. It shared tankdesign and parts with the CB550K2 a model marketed in the US in 1976. It you are interested and can read German, I can mail you this doubletest: Das Motorrad: „Ansichtssache“, Doppeltest Honda CB 500/750 (CB 500 K4/CB 750 K6), Heft 13/76 vom 13. Juni 1976, Motor-Presse-Verlag Stuttgart
That '4' in 'K4' is a bit confusing. What they ment was CB500K2 Four.

[ST1100]

Where did you find that? In Europe the first year for the K2 was 1976. The first three colours you mention are either CB500 or CB500K1.

A German site (scroll to the bottom for the chart):
http://nippon-classic.de/motorraeder/honda/honda-cb-500-four-der-topseller-in-der-500er-klasse/

The Italian site does not list Excel Black for the 500, only the 550:
http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/colori

[deltarider]

The Italian site does not list Excel Black for the 500, only the 550:
http://www.honda4fun.com/materiale-documentazione-tecnica/colori

Obviously the site is incomplete and that article got things mixed up. They present only the colours of the CB500K2 (A) that was marketed in US in 1973. Our K2 (ED, F, G) was marketed in Europe in 1976-7 and differed as far as tank paint scheme and various parts that it shared with the CB550K2 marketed in US at the same time. So the earlier US CB500K2 was not identical with the CB500K2 in Europe three years later. That's why Honda edited a special Parts List for our K2. On p.3 of forsaid parts list you'll find the three colours listed and that list is complete and does not lie since it was edited by Honda itself. Mine, in the picture is Excel Black. If you Google (images) CB500K2 Candy sapphire blue or CB500K2 Candy garnet brown you may see pictures of them. BTW our model shared the paint design (tank) with the models CB550K1 and CB550K2 models that were not on the European market.

Seems I'll need to contact Honda Austria to inquire if this is a G or ED model and which colour is probably had...

No, you don't need to and they'll probably not remember it anyway. If you go through the Parts List you'll see the differences between ED, G and F (area code). Why not take what obviously is a big step for you and study that parts list. You'll be rewarded just by consulting p. 70-72 where the differences in taillight are displayed between ED and G models. Believe me, all the answers are in forsaid parts list. Then, if something is still not clear, you can ask here.
BTW, you haven't answered my questions yet.

[ST1100]

you haven't answered my questions yet.

Because I haven't been at the shop yet...
Think I'm sleeping there?? 

[Trigger]

Thanx!
(familiar with the distribution area codes due my ST1100 engagement, no AR (Austria) model back then ;-) )

So are they definitely K2, with the edgy tank decor as shown in your pic (your mount?), or earlier with the significant semicircle decal lining?
Also: "framed" 500-4 badges, or the clean ones on the side covers?

Seems I'll have to inspect the wiring harness/connectors to ID it as true K0 or not...

Will also have to look for any markings on the carbs (provided that their still the originals) and come back to you.

To identify a true CB500K0, look for the frame and engine numbers starting with 10....., early engines will have a flat crank case. The harness/loom will have round pins (only spades will be on the ignition block). Ears/ headlight brackets will have a 5mm thread for the small reflectors (later units had 6mm thread with the larger reflector. The seat cover will have the large pattern, seat pan is different to take the hook type latch and the spring is bolted to the seat pan. The seat lock is different to take the hook.
If you search though previous posts, you will find all the answers you need.
Little tip, never believe everything you read that Honda has printed.   

[deltarider]

His is not a K0. Why ST1100 gives a second set of numbers, I do not understand. If, if, one set of the numbers is on the bike and the other set is in the registration documents of that bike, then there's something fishy.

Little tip, never believe everything you read that Honda has printed.

Nobody is perfect, but although I've seen some mistakes in their documents, Honda, compared to others, is the most reliable source by far.

[ST1100]

The second set of numbers is listed in that (very old) title...
I've to assume they indicate the very first homologation of a CB500 four here in Austria (apparently August 10th, 1971).
Whilst the bike was registered at April 7th, 1976, could it have been stockpiled for some period before that...
Obviously were changes made on later models too marginal to issue a new document; hence is it also still showing a K0 drawing in the centre partition...

With no job assignments today I managed to hop by the shop and solve the colour mystery... by force... 

Chiselling and scraping off old layers of filler and rattle-can revealed that originally it was: Candy Sapphire Blue

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

Fuel pet-cock is a K0-K1 though, electrics are K2...

The wheels are interesting though:

[ Guests cannot view attachments ]

After-market or genuine on this year/model?
Worth keeping and restoring them, or get the standard chromed ones?

BTW, what stamped on number do the carbs have?

No stamped numbers recognisable at all... maybe traces surface when I remove them for cleaning/servicing...

[hairygit]

Those alloy rims were never a Honda option. They will be aftermarket, possibly Borrani rims.

Sent from my X5 using Tapatalk

[ST1100]

...possibly Borrani rims.

So I'll swap them onto the '73 Café then...

Thanx for all the info so far...

[deltarider]

Whilst the bike was registered at April 7th, 1976, could it have been stockpiled for some period before that...

It's a bit of a mystery, this batch of the CB500 (ED, F, G). I presume Honda still had a lot of CB500 engines left over and - where in various markets they had started marketing the 550 - Honda decided to ship these 500s to countries that maybe had legislation like 500cc being the maximum either for tax-, insurance or riderslicence reasons. I don't know, Honda later did the same with the CB500K3 (almost identical with the CB550K3) of which some 4200 were assembled.

No stamped numbers recognisable at all... maybe traces surface when I remove them for cleaning/servicing...

The stamped in carbnumbers are a bit difficult to detect. The picture below shows where to look. For the CB500 it's either 627B or 649A. Yours probably will be 649A like mine.