Post by: DomP on August 10, 2023, 08:55:03 PM
So far I have discover a few good and few not so good things.
Good-
The frame must have been painted or powder coated at one point as its far too clean bar a few knocks. A previous owner has gone over it replacing all engine cover fastenings with stainless cap heads.
Not so good-
The gear lever looks to be from another bike, it's been over clamped in an attempt to gain a grip on the shifter splines which are a little bit chewed up. All float bowl screws are chewed up and are a mix of length and head type, possibly the worst thing I've encountered so far is the rear wheel. I'd noticed it was very hard to push around so stripped the rear wheel out, the hub has been dinked on the edges by a hammer or something so it was catching on the drum plate. When I removed the plate from the hub I found very uneven wear on the shoes and lining which has also cracked in several places, new hub or a replacement lining needed.
Post by: Oddjob on August 10, 2023, 11:57:42 PM
Sounds like your going to need a new gear selector shaft, I have a couple spare if you do. Also had a gear lever but I've sold it recently. You can find them second hand but the chromes usually crap.
I also have 3 spare carbs off the 550, 069a carbs are standard on that model. I have 2, 3 and 4 cylinders. Not particularly for sale unless you're really desperate, you can heli-coil those threads but it's a tricky job..
Post by: Trigger on August 11, 2023, 08:56:16 AM
I decided I needed a CB550 in my like after completing (nearly) my XS650B restoration. I found a UK 1976 cb550f1 on 32k and in relatively good condition with very little apparent rust or corrosion, it was last started in 2017 but still turns over so fingers crossed a service and strip and clean of the carbs, new plugs will get it running. I've bought a compression tester so I can find out what kind of health the engine is in and will stick my inspection camera down the plug holes to see what it all looks like in there.
So far I have discover a few good and few not so good things.
Good-
The frame must have been painted or powder coated at one point as its far too clean bar a few knocks. A previous owner has gone over it replacing all engine cover fastenings with stainless cap heads.
Not so good-
The gear lever looks to be from another bike, it's been over clamped in an attempt to gain a grip on the shifter splines which are a little bit chewed up. All float bowl screws are chewed up and are a mix of length and head type, possibly the worst thing I've encountered so far is the rear wheel. I'd noticed it was very hard to push around so stripped the rear wheel out, the hub has been dinked on the edges by a hammer or something so it was catching on the drum plate. When I removed the plate from the hub I found very uneven wear on the shoes and lining which has also cracked in several places, new hub or a replacement lining needed.
All sounds normal to me for a 45+ year old bike that has had a previous owners tinkering ;)
Post by: DomP on August 11, 2023, 01:37:51 PM
Yes I think so too Trigger, nothing insurmountable...so far! Is it you that is able to re-line hub brake linings?
Post by: Oddjob on August 11, 2023, 01:51:56 PM
Ignore the screw sizes listed by Honda for the bowls and the tops, the float bowls are too long, the tops are too short So the top ones strip out because there are too little threads engaging and the bottom strip out because the threads come out of the other side of the casting, then they corrode and when you remove them they strip the thread out of the casting as that corrosion gets pulled through or they damage it so much it strips out when you try and refit the screw. Fit slightly longer screws in the tops and smaller ones in the float bowls or trim the existing ones.
There are stainless steel replacements readily available as are new JIS screws, they won't rust and petrol doesn't bother them. Don't fit socket bolts or allen keyed IMO, they can exert too much force and strip out threads.
Post by: Trigger on August 11, 2023, 06:43:11 PM
Thanks Oddjob, I've had a look and got a few leads to chase up regarding the brake lining, I think the carbs are very much salvageable with an m4? Helicoil.
Yes I think so too Trigger, nothing insurmountable...so far! Is it you that is able to re-line hub brake linings?
If you are going to buy a helicoil kit, V-coil are suitable for rolled threads ;)
And the carbs do not have enough meat on them for a Time insert ::)
Post by: Trigger on August 11, 2023, 07:39:30 PM
Thanks Oddjob, I've had a look and got a few leads to chase up regarding the brake lining, I think the carbs are very much salvageable with an m4? Helicoil.
Yes I think so too Trigger, nothing insurmountable...so far! Is it you that is able to re-line hub brake linings?
I did hub lining but, have now sold the lathe. Near on imposable to find someone with a big enough lathe to take a full wheel so, a full strip is required.
Not a cheap job, the donor Honda brake drum have shot up in price and a lot of work involved.
Post by: Oddjob on August 11, 2023, 07:57:52 PM
Post by: Trigger on August 12, 2023, 05:36:45 PM
Post by: DomP on August 12, 2023, 09:24:00 PM
I've found a bit more bodgery today, not only have the carb bodies been rattle canned in black with the bowls off but one has been butchered and had the jet JB Welded (up- see pics) although ive managed to pick it apart and removd the mangled jet. That same body is missing the flat spring steel jet retaining spring, are they available separately?
Post by: Bryanj on August 12, 2023, 09:35:45 PM
Post by: DomP on August 12, 2023, 09:58:43 PM
I have ordered some from 4 into 1 in the us but they come in sets, i saved a bit by ordering via a us mate, if you do order and need one urgently i could lend you one
Thanks Brian! However I'm wondering if I need a complete new body looking at the jet seating area, what do you think?
Post by: Bryanj on August 12, 2023, 10:16:39 PM
Post by: Trigger on August 12, 2023, 11:47:22 PM
Post by: Trigger on August 12, 2023, 11:55:02 PM
Post by: DomP on August 13, 2023, 07:11:00 AM
It's no.4 carb I need but having all the spares might come in handy, I didn't expect this to be plain sailing, twice as many carbs as my xs😆
Post by: DomP on August 13, 2023, 07:13:23 AM
Post by: Trigger on August 13, 2023, 07:17:06 AM
Yes you're correct Trigger, looks like they've tried to drift the emulsion tube out...rather unsuccessfully!
It's no.4 carb I need but having all the spares might come in handy, I didn't expect this to be plain sailing, twice as many carbs as my xs😆
You drift the tube out from the other end, needle side ;) If it was plain sailing, you would be bored by now ::) Having a spare set usually works out cheaper in the long run.
Post by: Trigger on August 13, 2023, 07:19:57 AM
I thought the keihin 069a were a more commonly used carb? Barely any or their parts on Ebay
The earlier carbs are more available from imported bike being broken for spares ;)
Post by: DomP on August 13, 2023, 08:05:24 AM
Yes you're correct Trigger, looks like they've tried to drift the emulsion tube out...rather unsuccessfully!
It's no.4 carb I need but having all the spares might come in handy, I didn't expect this to be plain sailing, twice as many carbs as my xs😆
You drift the tube out from the other end, needle side ;) If it was plain sailing, you would be bored by now ::) Having a spare set usually works out cheaper in the long run.
True, plenty to keep my occupied this winter I think. A full spare set in decent condition could be a godsend actually, I'll message the ebay link you sent me to check their condition under the bowls. Thanks for your help too!
Post by: Trigger on August 13, 2023, 08:50:33 AM
Most owners damage (Snap off ) the float pin towers trying to get the pin out. I have always found that if, they are well stuck in. It is easier to run a thin blade down the side of the towers and cut through the brass pin. Cheaper to replace a in than a carb body ;)
Hope you get a result .
Post by: DomP on August 13, 2023, 02:40:38 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 13, 2023, 03:28:08 PM
Amazingly the Ebay seller of those carbs is unwilling take the bowls off to enable me to check the condition.
That might be because he knows they are not very good inside.
Post by: Nurse Julie on August 13, 2023, 06:47:48 PM
Amazingly the Ebay seller of those carbs is unwilling take the bowls off to enable me to check the condition.Well, that's a poor show, they probably have no internals in them 😂😂😂
Post by: Seabeowner on August 13, 2023, 06:52:18 PM
Equally amazing they sold in a day. Did you buy them?Amazingly the Ebay seller of those carbs is unwilling take the bowls off to enable me to check the condition.
That might be because he knows they are not very good inside.
If they were listed as used, they must be serviceable. But just looked they are just marked pre owned, so maybe anything goes.
Post by: Trigger on August 13, 2023, 06:58:52 PM
Post by: Oddjob on August 13, 2023, 08:06:45 PM
Post by: DomP on August 13, 2023, 09:00:49 PM
In short I think I need the body of carb no4, it's emulsion tube, main jet and the retaining spring, or just a complete no4 carb. I've spent most of this afternoon stripping the black rattle can paint off them, carb cleaner wrinkles it up nicely.
Post by: Trigger on August 13, 2023, 11:22:18 PM
I wasn't prepared to take the chance given his response, removing 4 screws per bowl would take all of 5 mins. Any way I've carefully drifted all four emulsion tubes out, no4 is damaged although the internal orifice that the needle enters is ok but really needs replacing, other than some float straightening on all other carbs they are good.
In short I think I need the body of carb no4, it's emulsion tube, main jet and the retaining spring, or just a complete no4 carb. I've spent most of this afternoon stripping the black rattle can paint off them, carb cleaner wrinkles it up nicely.
The needle enters the emulsion tube and that is its guide ;)
Did you get all the float pins out OK ?
Post by: DomP on August 14, 2023, 08:02:37 AM
Post by: DomP on August 14, 2023, 12:18:24 PM
I have a spare number 4 carb body, 069a, and most of the internals for the rest of the carb bodies, I'm just waiting for Dom to see if he needs anything else besides the carb body, an emulsion tube and the jet leaf spring. Looking at the state of his carbs it's likely that he will.
Sent you a pm
Post by: DomP on August 18, 2023, 12:37:22 PM
Can anyone advise me as to why I have two cut wires in the loom that have been connected seemingly the wrong way? Hopefully I've got the carb parts here to reassemble and bench sync and fuses on their way so I might be able to test the electrics by next week...who knows I might even get it started.
Post by: Trigger on August 18, 2023, 01:25:18 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on August 18, 2023, 01:47:21 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 18, 2023, 01:57:37 PM
Post by: DomP on August 18, 2023, 02:28:45 PM
Post by: Deano400 on August 18, 2023, 03:01:57 PM
Post by: Oddjob on August 18, 2023, 04:16:38 PM
The foam is missing from the metal piece removed from the bottom of the airbox, you must have it fitted or it will wreck the filter with oil mist. Is the spring missing that secures the filter?
Post by: Bryanj on August 18, 2023, 04:20:01 PM
The air filter system is missing a foam filter that you can cut out of a kitchen scouring pad.
Post by: Trigger on August 18, 2023, 05:53:00 PM
Post by: andy120t on August 18, 2023, 06:08:30 PM
Post by: Oddjob on August 18, 2023, 06:25:23 PM
You can ditch it all and just fit the 500 filter, keeps cleaner as well. Vent the pipe from the breather over to atmosphere.
Either keep the old stuff or sell it on, your choice.
Post by: Seabeowner on August 18, 2023, 07:16:08 PM
Post by: DomP on August 18, 2023, 07:23:56 PM
Yeah it was emission related, California related almost certainly.
You can ditch it all and just fit the 500 filter, keeps cleaner as well. Vent the pipe from the breather over to atmosphere.
Either keep the old stuff or sell it on, your choice.
Using a 500 air filter sounds a far simpler option to me, and this won't affect carb jetting from standard? I'm also missing the airbox lid😫
Post by: Oddjob on August 18, 2023, 07:28:46 PM
Roo has a couple of the tool trays which are far handier than having the snorkel fitted, they ain't cheap however as they are getting ultra rare these days but you can also get a spare fuse holder in it as well, which can be very handy.
Post by: DomP on August 18, 2023, 10:14:12 PM
Post by: Oddjob on August 18, 2023, 10:19:18 PM
Ahh, I'm betting the spring was missing and that was fitted to space the filter out to seal it against the front. So the springs missing?
If so, this is what you need.
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/by-part-number/partnumber_17216323020P/
Post by: DomP on August 19, 2023, 08:20:22 AM
Post by: Oddjob on August 19, 2023, 03:12:50 PM
http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,27149.msg250841.html#msg250841
Post by: DomP on August 19, 2023, 07:15:09 PM
Post by: Oddjob on August 19, 2023, 07:47:25 PM
Post by: DomP on August 19, 2023, 10:13:20 PM
Post by: Oddjob on August 19, 2023, 11:43:27 PM
Check the dimensions.
https://www.gsfcarparts.com/parts/braking/brake-drums-shoes/brake-drum
Post by: DomP on August 20, 2023, 12:10:54 AM
Post by: Trigger on August 20, 2023, 12:20:40 AM
No matter what I do GSF comes up with nothing, those links dont even work for me for some reason.
The ones i used to use where Honda Civic drums, not easy to find and not cheap. I found that aftermarket drums were a lot harder to work with and some even had old crushed ball bearings from when they recycled the steel.
Honda OEM number was 42610-SB2-010, 42610-SB2-761 ;)
Post by: Oddjob on August 24, 2023, 03:58:52 PM
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333827058618?hash=item4db9a4abba:g:bEAAAOSwMGBf2jdm&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwP91%2FFBnA7SeWFp2W9T4C2jvAfTNy1o5UlSCw%2B4FCuB%2F9C7otpfOCyt6LbcBqByDWG8vsDFOs5wRrn2ve1F7oBI0L2CxzWAGCDKAl6gjAMkmW3Z4CE5d5tuHYGmcOvh7AZzoTuEaDYFhAnM3p09RhU7pNagaQLiU5Y3909rH%2FsEeK81ZDTaCnB%2FLKSZ9I3o70lMMQKqmn%2FO%2Fq9zL1gnrzkMPDDjwqDAZytav7RwN%2F3lonBs1LdEUlddf%2BIqVT2O8Xw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8aL2oDFYg
Might be worth a gamble.
Post by: Trigger on August 24, 2023, 05:26:18 PM
Post by: Oddjob on August 24, 2023, 05:44:27 PM
Plus it's supposed to be the equivalent of the 42610-SB2-010 which you listed.
Post by: DomP on August 24, 2023, 08:07:14 PM
How about this Dom?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333827058618?hash=item4db9a4abba:g:bEAAAOSwMGBf2jdm&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwP91%2FFBnA7SeWFp2W9T4C2jvAfTNy1o5UlSCw%2B4FCuB%2F9C7otpfOCyt6LbcBqByDWG8vsDFOs5wRrn2ve1F7oBI0L2CxzWAGCDKAl6gjAMkmW3Z4CE5d5tuHYGmcOvh7AZzoTuEaDYFhAnM3p09RhU7pNagaQLiU5Y3909rH%2FsEeK81ZDTaCnB%2FLKSZ9I3o70lMMQKqmn%2FO%2Fq9zL1gnrzkMPDDjwqDAZytav7RwN%2F3lonBs1LdEUlddf%2BIqVT2O8Xw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8aL2oDFYg
Might be worth a gamble.
Only just noticed this, it looks like it should work
Post by: DomP on August 24, 2023, 08:08:34 PM
Post by: Trigger on August 25, 2023, 07:44:10 AM
Thought the original spec was 180mm with a max spec of 181mm, which that drum clearly shows to be the same max spec.
Plus it's supposed to be the equivalent of the 42610-SB2-010 which you listed.
As i have already stated on this thread, you have to be careful of aftermarket drums. It needs to be 180mm spot on or like the old Honda ones were 179.850mm. The AP lockheed will be a tad over 180mm.
Try a Brembo 14.5069.10 or a Bosch 0 986 477 063
These were the last one i bought for Mick's and Roo's hub >>>https://www.autodoc.co.uk/brembo/1657868
Post by: Oddjob on August 25, 2023, 01:08:07 PM
That Brembo one is mage expensive, especially when all you want is the liner.
Post by: Trigger on August 25, 2023, 04:59:32 PM
My mate who is a window fitter had worn out his OEM brake disc's after 75000 miles on his van and he replaced them with cheap shite from europarts. They only lasted 10000miles ;)
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 11:09:12 AM
Post by: Oddjob on August 26, 2023, 11:24:34 AM
Correct me if I’m wrong here but weren’t AP Lockheed original equipment on some 750f models?
Post by: Trigger on August 26, 2023, 12:55:07 PM
Before I commit to getting this hub relined, what's going on here with the alignment?
Show me a picture of you hub because i may have one already done ;)
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 02:05:49 PM
Alignment Dom? Please clarify.
Correct me if I’m wrong here but weren’t AP Lockheed original equipment on some 750f models?
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 02:06:49 PM
Before I commit to getting this hub relined, what's going on here with the alignment?
Show me a picture of you hub because i may have one already done ;)
Will do when I can but for some reason I can't upload photos today?!
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 02:56:39 PM
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 03:04:04 PM
Before I commit to getting this hub relined, what's going on here with the alignment?
Show me a picture of you hub because i may have one already done ;)
Hmm, I've had to resize my photos which I've not needed to do before. Here you go Trigger.
Post by: Trigger on August 26, 2023, 06:28:10 PM
Before I commit to getting this hub relined, what's going on here with the alignment?
Show me a picture of you hub because i may have one already done ;)
Hmm, I've had to resize my photos which I've not needed to do before. Here you go Trigger.
Sorry Dom, hard to tell from those pictures. I thought you had the wheel stripped down and that is the picture i was after to ID the hub ;)
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 06:50:27 PM
Before I commit to getting this hub relined, what's going on here with the alignment?
Show me a picture of you hub because i may have one already done ;)
Hmm, I've had to resize my photos which I've not needed to do before. Here you go Trigger.
Sorry Dom, hard to tell from those pictures. I thought you had the wheel stripped down and that is the picture i was after to ID the hub ;)
I did have but put it back together so I can move it about in my cramped garage. It's a standard 550f rear hub so I could send you photos from one on ebay?
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 07:06:46 PM
I have found that it's not running on points but electronic ignition (Dyna S) which was a nice surprise as its one less thing to have to mess around with.
Post by: Oddjob on August 26, 2023, 07:15:39 PM
When using a 500 air filter in a 550 airbox how do I prevent it dropping it the bottom?
AFAIK the filter will sit correctly. I seem to recall it's the same psychical shape and size, just with a hole in the bottom on the 550.
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 07:31:32 PM
When using a 500 air filter in a 550 airbox how do I prevent it dropping it the bottom?
AFAIK the filter will sit correctly. I seem to recall it's the same psychical shape and size, just with a hole in the bottom on the 550.
It will sit down too far meaning it doesn't line up with the airbox hole. I think the 550 filter is held up by the metal pipe and gauge screen.
Regarding the rear hub alignment I mentioned earlier, there is a photo a few posts back where the sprocket carrier isn't in alignment with the hub.
Post by: Bryanj on August 26, 2023, 07:34:51 PM
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 07:41:38 PM
Before I commit to getting this hub relined, what's going on here with the alignment?
Show me a picture of you hub because i may have one already done ;)
Hmm, I've had to resize my photos which I've not needed to do before. Here you go Trigger.
Sorry Dom, hard to tell from those pictures. I thought you had the wheel stripped down and that is the picture i was after to ID the hub ;)
Here you go Trigger, this is what the internals of mine looks like.
Post by: Trigger on August 26, 2023, 07:49:53 PM
Before I commit to getting this hub relined, what's going on here with the alignment?
Show me a picture of you hub because i may have one already done ;)
Hmm, I've had to resize my photos which I've not needed to do before. Here you go Trigger.
Sorry Dom, hard to tell from those pictures. I thought you had the wheel stripped down and that is the picture i was after to ID the hub ;)
Here you go Trigger, this is what the internals of mine looks like.
Is that the hub from your bike ? Can not see any cracks in the liner .
Post by: Nurse Julie on August 26, 2023, 07:57:34 PM
When using a 500 air filter in a 550 airbox how do I prevent it dropping it the bottom?A 500 air filter will not fit a 550 air filter box, it'll just drop to the bottom and won't line up where it needs to, I've tried it personally as I have 500 and 550.
Post by: Trigger on August 26, 2023, 07:59:30 PM
[attachimg=1]
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 08:02:59 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on August 26, 2023, 08:14:24 PM
OK, I'll go out and get a photo now. Regarding the 500 air filter, I though of making a bracket to bolt though the lower airbox hole to prevent the filter slipping down.You could just use a 550 air filter Dom. There are 2 different 550 air filter boxes, one has a rubber cushion around it the other doesn't, as well as other differences in the air filter box set up between the 2 550's.
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 08:20:06 PM
OK, I'll go out and get a photo now. Regarding the 500 air filter, I though of making a bracket to bolt though the lower airbox hole to prevent the filter slipping down.You could just use a 550 air filter Dom. There are 2 different 550 air filter boxes, one has a rubber cushion around it the other doesn't, as well as other differences in the air filter box set up.
I used a 500 filter because I'm missing quite a few of the original airbox bits and Ken told me it's the easier option. Mine is the rubber cushion type.
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 08:22:58 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on August 26, 2023, 08:25:37 PM
Ah yes, I remember seeing your photos now. If I remember, you had the piece with the stand on it but not the panching plate, which you can do without anyway.OK, I'll go out and get a photo now. Regarding the 500 air filter, I though of making a bracket to bolt though the lower airbox hole to prevent the filter slipping down.You could just use a 550 air filter Dom. There are 2 different 550 air filter boxes, one has a rubber cushion around it the other doesn't, as well as other differences in the air filter box set up.
I used a 500 filter because I'm missing quite a few of the original airbox bits and Ken told me it's the easier option. Mine is the rubber cushion type.
Post by: Nurse Julie on August 26, 2023, 08:33:20 PM
[attachimg=1].
Post by: DomP on August 26, 2023, 10:55:31 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 26, 2023, 11:17:05 PM
If its piston related they should come up massively, if little change might be the valves need re-grinding.
Post by: Trigger on August 27, 2023, 12:19:49 AM
Trigger-
Ok Dom, it is a 323 hub. I must have one in one of the store rooms. Will have a look for it and get back to you ;)
Post by: Oddjob on August 27, 2023, 06:34:46 AM
It seems a little bit of overkill tbh but the 500 filter is generally easier to find and generally a lot cheaper to buy, genuine that is not aftermarket. So it will pay for itself in the end.
You could just fit the 550 filter with the bottom tubed part of the recycling system fitted as well. What you shouldn’t do is fit it without that part fitted as well, firstly because it has a small seal that seals around the hole in the bottom of the filter and secondly because without that seal unfiltered air is getting into the engine and you might as well not fit an air filter if that’s happening.
Drop a little oil down the plug holes, just a few drops, and leave it for a while. Test compression again, don’t forget, throttle wide open, kill switch to off. It could be ring wear, it could be the rings are stuck in their grooves so aren’t sealing like they should, the oil may help them become unstuck. If the readings go up significantly then that points to the rings being the problem.
I seem to recall that the 550 brake plate won’t fit in the 500 hub, it fits physically but a flange on the plate rubs on the hub. Been a while so I might be mistaken.
Post by: DomP on August 27, 2023, 07:51:02 AM
Post by: Trigger on August 27, 2023, 08:01:11 AM
A 550F2, 550K3 brake plate is middle number 341 and was fitted to a 404 hub ;)
Dom has a 323 hub as he has a CB550F1 UK model ::)
It is very easy Dom. All you had to do is unplug the hose that runs from the top of the engine breather cover where it attaches to the air box at the bottom. Find a rubber ferrule that would fit over the pipe at the bottom of the air box. This would cap any oil vapour from the engine. Use a 550 air filter with what you already have and hunt for a lid for the air box. ;)
Post by: Trigger on August 27, 2023, 08:03:49 AM
Thanks all, I'll have another look at it today, struggling to get a steady idle, carbs set to factory with genuine jets etc and bench synced and the low compression concerned me a bit. I'll get there, might take me delving into the engine which I've never done before. Is it that costly to do a DIY top end rebuild?
Cost is down to what you find that needs replacing ;)
Post by: DomP on August 27, 2023, 10:40:30 AM
New results with all plugs out, and full throttle. I think I'd left the choke on however.
Cylinder 1 - 125psi
Cylinder 2 - 110
Cylinder 3 - 120
Cylinder 4 - 110
I've turned the mixture screw in so it's now at a full turn out. Next plan is to let it cool down and check/adjust the valve clearances.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 27, 2023, 11:45:10 AM
Might be worth putting a few miles on her with some upper cylinder lubricant if it's not run for a while they might improve - nothing to loose.
If it turns out to be a bore/piston wear issue you really need to split the crankcases as new pistons can put extra load on the crank so best to check the big ends & main bearings.
Bryan here does rebores for 500/550's I think as well as Trigger so might be worth a couple of PM's for prices.
Post by: DomP on August 27, 2023, 01:00:58 PM
Post by: DomP on August 27, 2023, 05:10:36 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 27, 2023, 05:19:25 PM
Okay without going back over your post have you cleaned the carbs & bench synched them?
Post by: Oddjob on August 27, 2023, 05:29:24 PM
Post by: Trigger on August 27, 2023, 06:24:50 PM
Post by: DomP on August 27, 2023, 06:35:46 PM
Post by: DomP on August 27, 2023, 07:29:05 PM
Post by: Trigger on August 27, 2023, 07:32:21 PM
You will find you need to strip the whole engine down and be prepared for some surprises ;)
Post by: Nurse Julie on August 27, 2023, 07:34:43 PM
Post by: DomP on August 27, 2023, 07:54:19 PM
Post by: DomP on August 27, 2023, 07:55:32 PM
Are you turning the air / fuel mix screw the right way?. Out for more air = leaner, in for more fuel = richer.
My bad! Yeah I turned it in rather than out by mistake
Post by: Nurse Julie on August 27, 2023, 08:06:35 PM
Yea, that's what I guessed 😊😊😊Are you turning the air / fuel mix screw the right way?. Out for more air = leaner, in for more fuel = richer.
My bad! Yeah I turned it in rather than out by mistake
Post by: DomP on August 27, 2023, 09:11:50 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 27, 2023, 09:31:49 PM
Post by: DomP on August 28, 2023, 09:00:19 AM
Post by: Trigger on August 28, 2023, 09:03:04 AM
Post by: DomP on August 28, 2023, 09:05:43 AM
Post by: Trigger on August 28, 2023, 09:19:47 AM
Post by: DomP on August 28, 2023, 09:27:35 AM
Post by: Bryanj on August 28, 2023, 11:28:14 AM
Gasket set
Oil seal set
Primary chain (kawasaki)
Cam chain, see oddjob
Primary damper rubbers x 8 Honda and not cheap
Possibly cam chain tension blade
Probably cam chain cushion
Maybe pistons/rebore
Bank loan
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on August 28, 2023, 07:24:11 PM
Post by: Trigger on August 28, 2023, 07:40:57 PM
Post by: DomP on August 28, 2023, 10:53:39 PM
Post by: DomP on August 31, 2023, 09:41:16 AM
Post by: Oddjob on August 31, 2023, 01:20:56 PM
Post by: DomP on August 31, 2023, 03:51:21 PM
Depends what you mean by throttle stops
I've just got a Haynes manual today which says 56mm. This is what I was referring to Ken
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 03:19:51 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 02, 2023, 03:44:06 PM
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 03:52:32 PM
Strip the head and barrels off.
Yes I think so Ken, to be honest it's got an oil lea from the head gasket that needs sorting so I'm going to be going in there at some point so might as well now. Also a few times after turning it off the exhaust has made a king of vacuum stuck back noise, what's that?
Post by: Oddjob on September 02, 2023, 03:58:24 PM
Don't forget to replace the valve stem seals whilst you have the head off.
I suspect you'll find rings stuck in the grooves on the piston as well
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 04:29:46 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 02, 2023, 04:45:45 PM
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 04:49:18 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 02, 2023, 05:04:23 PM
The full honda 500/550 manual is in either Ashs dropbox or alladins cave so download it and read, especially the bit about refitting cam cover!!!
Post by: Trigger on September 02, 2023, 05:52:43 PM
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 06:17:39 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 02, 2023, 06:25:04 PM
Thanks all, I've got the rocker off following several guides, I'm labelling everything and sticking bolts through labelled card to remember their positions for reassembly. I'll post some photos later
I love pictures of the insides of engines. That is what made my job so interesting, you would never find the same problem once stripped down ;)
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 07:28:35 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 02, 2023, 07:51:36 PM
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 08:03:28 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 02, 2023, 08:33:58 PM
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 08:37:11 PM
Nowt wrong with that cam
That's a relief Bryan, I'm not sure if I want to find any other issues that answer my problems or whether a clean bill of health would be good. Either way I'll be fixing a head gasket leak so it's all positive!
Post by: Oddjob on September 02, 2023, 08:46:38 PM
The cam can be re-profiled if there is more pitting on the lobes.
The dreaded instant gasket has made an appearance, haven't seen that stuff for a long while now. Very common in the 80s.
Post by: Oddjob on September 02, 2023, 08:47:33 PM
Ken, do you remember offering any more help I might need? 😉 I might be asking a few questions
Feel free, my favourite engine the 500/550.
Post by: Bryanj on September 02, 2023, 08:48:56 PM
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 08:54:46 PM
Ken, do you remember offering any more help I might need? 😉 I might be asking a few questions
Feel free, my favourite engine the 500/550.
Thanks Ken! I'm enjoying it at the moment. The tacho drive that screws into the rocker cover? It came out easily
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 08:55:55 PM
Dont remember seeing where you are located apart from uk, which whilst smaller than us still covers a big area
Good old Herefordshire, right on the Welsh border just outside a town called Kington.
Post by: K2-K6 on September 02, 2023, 08:56:34 PM
Nowt wrong with that cam
That's a relief Bryan, I'm not sure if I want to find any other issues that answer my problems or whether a clean bill of health would be good. Either way I'll be fixing a head gasket leak so it's all positive!
What about the holes / inclusion on the lobe nearest the sprocket flange in 3rd photo ? Looks like a good cheddar on my screen :o
Post by: Oddjob on September 02, 2023, 09:14:23 PM
Don't hammer the cylinder head fins to get it unstuck BTW or you'll break them. 2 small bolts fitted front and rear of the cam tunnel as well, make sure they are out. Use a rubber mallet or better still what is called a Compothane hammer, which is like a plastic hammer but the head is filled with lead shot so it gives a real dead blow which tends to shock stuff loose but without breaking it.
Like this.
https://www.screwfix.com/p/magnusson-dead-blow-rubber-mallet-35oz-0-99kg-/3081V?kpid=3081V&cm_mmc=Google-_-Datafeed-_-Tools?kpid=KINASEKPID&cm_mmc=Google-_-TOKEN1-_-TOKEN2&gclid=Cj0KCQjwusunBhCYARIsAFBsUP8616XTHja4_0HC5RPXdGZ7TOykNRarRGVFWQZhGP1N4kUKdpvza2kaAu5FEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 09:19:34 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 02, 2023, 09:25:00 PM
The followers are hardened the lobes are not
Post by: Oddjob on September 02, 2023, 09:26:10 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on September 02, 2023, 09:59:09 PM
Originates in oil condition during previous running, too long interval and fuel dilution. Cam lobe and followers always show this first due to highest pressure exerted on oil film at this site location.
Post by: DomP on September 02, 2023, 10:30:17 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 02, 2023, 11:19:27 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 02, 2023, 11:24:36 PM
I quite like the idea of a bit of cam reprofiling, if I find everything else to be in good order I may go down that route. In terms of top end gasket and o-ring kits, where is best to get them?
Vesrah are a top kit and you will need more than a top end set ;)
Post by: DomP on September 03, 2023, 11:30:38 AM
Post by: DomP on September 03, 2023, 11:32:24 AM
Post by: DomP on September 03, 2023, 11:35:32 AM
Cylinder 4, the small end bearing has some wiggle but the rest all seem fine from my very basic checks, all piston rings were free but the barrels don't look great do they?
Post by: DomP on September 03, 2023, 01:44:25 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 03, 2023, 01:57:56 PM
Cam lobes don't look good and it will need a rebore with oversize piston kit at 0.50 or more ;)
Cam chain guides look like any old guides and you always replace them.
Post by: DomP on September 03, 2023, 02:22:51 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 03, 2023, 02:32:20 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 03, 2023, 02:53:23 PM
Oversize pistons available at Cruzinimage pretty cheap and they seem ok from reports. Maybe check to see what the barrels clear up at before ordering. Either with new liners or with the old ones.
I may have some tappet adjusters. The valves with the damage may be able to be dressed up.
Got to say some of the rings look stuck in the grooves in a couple of the pics. Clearly 3 and 4 were not running well.
Head looks ok, camshaft journals not too bad. Rocker box is 550.
One thing I did notice, there appear to be springs fitted against the rocker arms, the 400 got similar but not the 550 to the best of my knowledge.
The camchain tensioner doesn't look bad, maybe check it's moves freely and replace the slipper if it does. The metal part should look straight from top to bottom, most seem to have a bend in them from bad fitting when amatuers take them apart. Check it's straight.
The camchain guide looks normal TBH, I've never replaced one of those unless it was damaged, usually bent.
With the state of the engine, clearly due to badly contaminated oil, I'm sort of dreading what the cranks shells are going to look like. Let's hope I'm wrong and they are fine.
Post by: DomP on September 03, 2023, 03:09:49 PM
Ken, the barrels have a couple of bits of fin damage but pretty inconspicuous and ill be painting it if all goes to plan. Your correct there are springs on the rockers, should they not be there? Very small marks to two valves but I've also noticed a chip on the cm chain adjuster retaining bolt hole.
No stuck ppiston rings Ken, they are all free but thats immaterial i guess what with the bore wear, tensioner looks OK for straightness too. You're all suggesting I split the cases then, I'm dreading that bit, I can't get the kickstart off the splines for a start😫
Post by: Bryanj on September 03, 2023, 03:11:03 PM
You can call me on 07795162623 Monday to Thursday inclusive after 8pm when i am at work driving
Post by: Oddjob on September 03, 2023, 03:22:50 PM
Post by: DomP on September 03, 2023, 03:42:04 PM
Remove the pinch bolt on the kickstarter and force a screwdriver or a chisel into the slot, that should expand the slot and allow the arm to come off.
I tried that Ken, I'll be a bit more gung-ho!
Post by: Trigger on September 03, 2023, 06:04:37 PM
Recently i have had a lot of my old barrels not clean at 0.25 as the liners have been egg shaped, so worth checking bore before ordering pistons.
You can call me on 07795162623 Monday to Thursday inclusive after 8pm when i am at work driving
It is one of the mistakes that a lot of owners buy pistons at .25 and only 10% ever do clean up mate.
Post by: Bryanj on September 03, 2023, 07:29:44 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 03, 2023, 07:41:20 PM
Yup, im finding them barrell shaped, fine at top and bottom but dont touch in middle, never found a step at the top yet though
It is a fine art with liners mate and can be a lot of work. Had a 750 set once that had water sitting on top of two pistons for years.
Re-bored to 0.45 and then to 0.75 and then 0.95 and you could still see the marks. Pushed the liner out and it had gone all the way through :o Then had to go down the road of putting another liner in and skim up the barrels ;)
Post by: DomP on September 03, 2023, 07:53:49 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on September 03, 2023, 08:16:52 PM
Am I right in thinking I'm doing the right think here, I'm not chasing a lost cause?You won't know until you have fully stripped the engine, measured and assessed everything, priced up all the parts needed and costed the machine work.
Post by: DomP on September 03, 2023, 09:14:01 PM
Post by: DomP on September 04, 2023, 11:44:30 AM
Post by: Bryanj on September 04, 2023, 12:20:22 PM
There is one odd 10mm headed bold hidden away everybody forgets.
You dont need a puller for the primary shaft, remove the oil pump and use a SOFT drift on the end you can see in the hole AFTER removing the retainers at clutch side.
Keep all the shells exactly where they came from as there is no way of identifying size if mixed up
Post by: Oddjob on September 04, 2023, 02:36:45 PM
Remove the bolt, leave a nut and washer on one end, thread on one of the footrests so the rubber end protrudes past the nut and washer. Thread the bar into the end of the primary shaft and use the footrest like a slide hammer It will pull out very easily as a rule.
Catch the spacer as it drops out from between the starter ring and the bearing.
Remove as much as you can before removing engine, points and advance unit, rotor as Bryan describes, clutch and chain sprocket, oil filter housing and oil pan and mesh filter. Get the engine as light as possible, you can get it out of the frame a lot easier that way.
Post by: DomP on September 04, 2023, 04:24:59 PM
I'm still not entirely sure I know in what order to remove bits yet, I think I need to watch it being done a few more times and read through the shop manual again
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 04, 2023, 05:42:51 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 04, 2023, 06:03:12 PM
Just take parts off and store them together, maybe take a pic of the area first so you can see what it looked like if you get lost. Take points cover off, take the bolt out of the middle of the big nut, that will allow the nut to come off, put everything inside the points cover first off, then remove the 3 screws holding the points plate on, disconnect the wiring and remove plate, then advance/retard mechanism. First job done, put everything in sealable plastic bags, maybe a label, maybe not. Keep areas together, points in one bag, rotor in another, clutch in another etc. You'll soon get used to it.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 04, 2023, 06:59:35 PM
I use old takeaway boxes to group bolts etc together then write on the lid where they came from take plenty of pics on your phone as well it helps with assembly some months later. Even when it's obvious where something was take a photo as it might not be obvious a week or more later.
For the engine casing bolts I use a piece of cardboard labelled up then fit the bolts through the holes makes it easier for assembly, you may well have thought of this anyway so sorry if i'm being too basic. Yes I spelt dowel wrong & left the y out of empty where a bolt was missing iirc.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53164673133_67eb42a836_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2oZYR6p)PXL_20230904_175427132 (https://flic.kr/p/2oZYR6p) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: Bryanj on September 04, 2023, 09:30:17 PM
1 rotor puller and an ht bolt with correct thred will work
2 clutch nut peg spanner and you can make one from an old socket and cutting disc
Post by: DomP on September 04, 2023, 09:30:57 PM
Post by: DomP on September 04, 2023, 09:34:00 PM
The 500/550 is the easiest of the fours to work on, only two "specials" you need
1 rotor puller and an ht bolt with correct thred will work
2 clutch nut peg spanner and you can make one from an old socket and cutting disc
You beat me to it Bryan, I'll try to call you this week to try and get the ball rolling.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 04, 2023, 10:05:54 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 05, 2023, 05:29:41 AM
The 500/550 is the easiest of the fours to work on, only two "specials" you need
1 rotor puller and an ht bolt with correct thred will work
2 clutch nut peg spanner and you can make one from an old socket and cutting disc
Eh??? The 500/550 doesn't have a clutch nut Bryan, it's a circlip. You're confusing it with the 400 I think.
Post by: DomP on September 05, 2023, 11:05:09 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 05, 2023, 11:28:09 PM
Post by: DomP on September 06, 2023, 07:23:10 AM
Post by: Trigger on September 06, 2023, 07:40:53 AM
On a CB400, if you have the springs on the wrong side of the rockers, you get the same result on valve stem chipping after some time ;)
Post by: Trigger on September 06, 2023, 07:45:07 AM
https://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,14049.30.html
Post by: DomP on September 06, 2023, 07:57:26 AM
Cam chain £35, Ken
Primary chain £48.40, Kawasaki
Primary dampers £6.41 each, DSS
Vesrah full gasket set £94.80, DSS
oil seal set £?
Piston set, Cruizinimage or DSS
Cam chain dampers £10.69, DSS
Valve stem seals £24, DSS
Hondabond £20
Any opinions or additions to on that list so far?
Post by: Trigger on September 06, 2023, 08:37:24 AM
I'll take them off tonight then, looking at the shop manual there's nothing in their place which makes me wonder what takes up the slack? I've written a list of bits I think I need at this stage-
Cam chain £35, Ken
Primary chain £48.40, Kawasaki
Primary dampers £6.41 each, DSS
Vesrah full gasket set £94.80, DSS
oil seal set £?
Piston set, Cruizinimage or DSS
Cam chain dampers £10.69, DSS
Valve stem seals £24, DSS
Hondabond £20
Any opinions or additions to on that list so far?
Valve stem seals come in the gasket set Dom but, the head sealing rubbers (pucks) do not ;)
Oil pump o'ring kit from julie.
You will not know until you fully assess what you need at the full strip stage but, any short cuts and these engines bit back ;)
Post by: DomP on September 06, 2023, 10:21:28 AM
Post by: Trigger on September 06, 2023, 10:30:48 AM
Should I be using plasti gauge on the conrod big ends
Yes, everything needs to be plasti-gauged up to work out all the clearances.
All gear box bearings need to be checked they are running feely and are not worn. The gear change dogs are with in spec and so on ;)
Post by: Bryanj on September 06, 2023, 12:51:01 PM
Post by: DomP on September 06, 2023, 12:55:07 PM
Best order some plasti gauge, what colour?
Post by: Oddjob on September 06, 2023, 03:28:21 PM
I'll take them off tonight then, looking at the shop manual there's nothing in their place which makes me wonder what takes up the slack? I've written a list of bits I think I need at this stage-
Cam chain £35, Ken
Primary chain £48.40, Kawasaki
Primary dampers £6.41 each, DSS
Vesrah full gasket set £94.80, DSS
oil seal set £?
Piston set, Cruizinimage or DSS
Cam chain dampers £10.69, DSS
Valve stem seals £24, DSS
Hondabond £20
Any opinions or additions to on that list so far?
Vesrah kit seems damned expensive, the OE head kit includes valve stem seals BTW and TBH a full kit isn't that attractive. There are only a few gaskets in the bottom end kit and most of the time it's cheaper to buy them separately IF you need them. Rotor one for instance isn't an oil seal gasket, just a seal to keep water etc out. If it's not broken you can reuse that. TBH I've reused lots of gaskets in the past, so long as they come off intact why not. Or buy an OE bottom kit.
I have some of the camchain tensioner damper rubbers somewhere. NOS of course. I'd advise checking the tensioner itself, does the blade compress and expand smoothly, is the release bolt ok, screwdriver slot not deformed or even broken, more than a few are. Is the bottom part straight and damage free, you'd be amazed how many have been caught by the primary chain, the damage is easy to see.
Refrain from buying plastigauge, look at the crank first, assess what needs replacing. It's likely you're going to need new shells, you can order it then if you think you need it.
It's going to get expensive, try and keep the costs down as much as possible whilst buying good parts, you get what you pay for when it comes to engine parts. Most of the roller bearings are available cheaper than OE, same make, same bearing, buy them from Hendersons for example. Same for seals, just chek the old one and you'll see the size printed on it, input that into Google and far cheaper alternatives come up.
Post by: Trigger on September 06, 2023, 05:24:30 PM
If you skimp on using old gaskets, you run the risk of an oil leak ;)
Post by: Oddjob on September 06, 2023, 07:59:41 PM
Rotor gasket isn't oil tight, just water so you can make one if it rips coming off. Only one you might need to change is the clutch cover if that rips, I tend to slide a really thin Stanley knife blade down the gap once all the screws are out, normally got half off without them breaking and you can use them again then.
Orings are dirt cheap and readily available. Same for engine seals, I have most of the orings and quite a few of the seals as I buy them in quantity.
His bill will be high enough without buying parts that aren't always needed. For a few pound more he could source a genuine top and bottom gasket kit and get the right parts, no problem with the head gasket and the orings not sealing with genuine, orings are all the exact size as well. John Oldfield has 2 bottom end kits for £34 each. It's just a matter of searching hard and you can find them at the right prices generally.
If you feel like searching Dom, the part numbers are 06110-390-020 for the topend set and 06111-390-000 for the bottom end set. Have a look around, see if you can find a bargain, they are out there, getting harder to find admitably but still available.
Post by: Trigger on September 06, 2023, 11:58:34 PM
I had a bit of a deeper delve into my bike yesterday, the air box has been messed with to the point I'm not sure what's missing even when looking at the Cmsnl parts list. I'm guessing lots of the parts aren't even available any longer which leaves a bit of a dilemma.
Can anyone advise me as to why I have two cut wires in the loom that have been connected seemingly the wrong way? Hopefully I've got the carb parts here to reassemble and bench sync and fuses on their way so I might be able to test the electrics by next week...who knows I might even get it started.
This is the part you need for the bottom of your air box Dom >>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355020970267?hash=item52a8e6191b:g:qzcAAOSwF8Nk-KJG&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwHvKo2rJus4LgdssI7kGjCt8xNFvDZkkQLL%2F3dC27wc96qT4KCMTLEUyfuOXsFaM9D%2B5IchmMOY2CKs0fKgdgBzl6m7YD5IdJUDvgxlrQovxO1zokbKr7zD3Ve1pXdZKgn7USjGsYDVk77mryw%2F%2BV7n%2F8N6TSOQ3K7EntaPaE1%2FufwdtEiFICxLaABemyOxC8dA7MII5NQHLckHv0%2F%2Frhb2qkUIC9w%2BboHMtGqHx2QYBbGECceSXtnBYJQPAAXbhqA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9yBoMvNYg
Post by: DomP on September 07, 2023, 07:28:25 AM
Post by: Trigger on September 07, 2023, 08:01:24 AM
Thanks Trigger, for now I'm reserving all my funds for this damn engine. What is the rotor thread for removal, m16 x 1.5?
That size is correct. Looks for a car wheel nut at that size, thread it in by hand attach a impact gun and it is off ;)
Post by: Oddjob on September 07, 2023, 04:31:24 PM
It's a genuine Honda tool and works really well, never failed yet. I just find the right thread, thread it into the rotor and hit one of the cross pieces with a rubber mallet. It's not as cheap as a bolt but you don't need an impact driver.
https://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/CB500K1-FOUR-1972/part_61715
The upside of buying genuine tools is they sell really well when you no longer need them, usually for more than you've paid as they are always going up in price. Plus they tend to make working on the bike so much easier, I have hundreds of genuine tools, pity your not closer, I could pop round and let you use them. You'd be able to borrow my valve compressor as well ::)
Post by: DomP on September 07, 2023, 05:25:04 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on September 07, 2023, 05:37:51 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 07, 2023, 05:42:03 PM
[attachimg=1]
Post by: DomP on September 07, 2023, 05:47:01 PM
Plan B in action
Post by: Oddjob on September 07, 2023, 05:47:50 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 07, 2023, 05:51:28 PM
The thread looks clean as, could the bolt be 1.75mm?!
Plan B in action
Defiantly a 1.5, just tried it on 3 different ones. Unless they have put a 400 one on :o
Post by: Trigger on September 07, 2023, 05:55:43 PM
:o Oh no, not thread pitch again ;D
[/quote
;D ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Oddjob on September 07, 2023, 05:58:22 PM
Check the bolt supplied to be 100% sure that's 1.5mm and they've not sent something else by mistake.
Post by: DomP on September 07, 2023, 06:12:08 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 07, 2023, 06:32:23 PM
I'll blame the bolt I got from my local tool hire shop, it cost me nothing as they couldn't be bothered to charge me for it.
You can not any old bolt, if it snaps you will have another problem. The bolt needs to be high tensile and that is why a car wheel bolt is ideal ;)
Post by: Seabeowner on September 07, 2023, 06:40:52 PM
Post by: DomP on September 08, 2023, 04:42:29 PM
I'll blame the bolt I got from my local tool hire shop, it cost me nothing as they couldn't be bothered to charge me for it.
You can not any old bolt, if it snaps you will have another problem. The bolt needs to be high tensile and that is why a car wheel bolt is ideal ;)
It was high tensile
Post by: DomP on September 08, 2023, 04:46:01 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 08, 2023, 05:33:00 PM
Post by: DomP on September 08, 2023, 06:09:20 PM
Rotor off tomorrow hopefully then I'll be able to see tge extent of the wear a bit more, fingers crossed! Is there a point at which engine wear isn't salvageable, I might as well prepare myself🤣
Post by: Bryanj on September 08, 2023, 07:29:45 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on September 08, 2023, 07:39:37 PM
Fingers crossed for good outcome.
Post by: DomP on September 08, 2023, 07:51:19 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 09, 2023, 01:47:03 AM
Is there meant to be a small amount of side to side play in the rocker arms then? I assume that's what they were trying to alleviate.
Rotor off tomorrow hopefully then I'll be able to see tge extent of the wear a bit more, fingers crossed! Is there a point at which engine wear isn't salvageable, I might as well prepare myself🤣
All engines are salvageable, it is just down to cost ;)
Post by: DomP on September 09, 2023, 08:40:38 AM
Post by: DomP on September 09, 2023, 09:27:41 AM
Post by: Bryanj on September 09, 2023, 01:17:05 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 09, 2023, 03:36:17 PM
Is there meant to be a small amount of side to side play in the rocker arms then? I assume that's what they were trying to alleviate.
Rotor off tomorrow hopefully then I'll be able to see tge extent of the wear a bit more, fingers crossed! Is there a point at which engine wear isn't salvageable, I might as well prepare myself🤣
All engines are salvageable, it is just down to cost ;)
I think the ones in the Titanic may disagree with you. ::)
I wonder why they thought springs on the rockers a good idea? I can see them getting confused, the 400 has them, why hasn't mine, maybe I lost one? Maybe but you don't lose 8 of them so clearly they were never fitted.
Post by: Oddjob on September 09, 2023, 03:49:35 PM
The 550F seat is rare, really rare. Not sure why but they are and when they do come up you get offered seats which TBH should be consigned to the bin. Pans are normally rusted out etc.
The 500 seat however is still available, even copies are going about these days but you can still find NOS ones if you are willing to wait and willing to pay for them. OR, a good second hand one might pop up. Same could be said about the 550F but IF a good second hand one comes up be prepared for a bidding war as everyone and his dog will want it.
The downside to fitting the 500 seat is that it doesn't fit the 550 tank, however if you change the tank to the 500 as well they should marry up quite well. The mounting points etc are the same. 500 tanks are easier to find as well and the sale of a good 550 tank should pay for one and leave a little left over. Personally I think the shape of the 500 tank is better as well.
Now the 550F seat had it's tools stored in it, the 500 has them in a tray above the air filter. Ditch the snorkel fitted to the 550 and fit the tray off the 500. Roo has one spare if needed.
The 550F original exhaust is almost unobtainable, so your never going to get a bike that is standard unless you win the lottery, so consider going near standard but without the expense. A Delkevic exhaust is available in stainless, so no rust, looks better than the Motad as well.
Just food for thought.
Post by: DomP on September 09, 2023, 08:23:58 PM
Post by: DomP on September 10, 2023, 12:37:29 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on September 10, 2023, 12:57:45 PM
Post by: DomP on September 10, 2023, 02:17:17 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 10, 2023, 02:33:16 PM
Post by: DomP on September 10, 2023, 03:24:29 PM
Gear box dogs look fine. I would plasti up the shells as long as you run your finger nail across the crank journals and don't feel any grooves ;)
Can't feel a thing Trigger, I'm not sure what step to take next to be honest...strip it all out and clean it up and check bearings? From what I can see the primary chain hasn't either the casing at all.
Post by: Oddjob on September 10, 2023, 03:34:06 PM
You need to rotate the gearbox and take another pic, although it looks fine in the pic posted there could be damage underneath we can't see.
Shells don't look that bad TBH, some minor pitting, most likely from contaminants in the oil sitting against the shell when it's been stood. Crank journal we can see looks ok.
Primary chain looks toast TBH, but check with the tank track test and see what it looks like then. Strip the engine completely, if nothing else it needs a really good clean.
Gear selectors look fine.
Anything sitting in the sump? little bits etc.
Looks like the dreaded red hermetite or instant gasket, really plastered it on either way.
Can you see the crank markings? the printed letters and numbers? What are the letters on the back of the lower crankcase as that will show what colours you should have fitted, well within 2 colours anyway.
Need more pics but looks good up to now.
Post by: Bryanj on September 10, 2023, 04:57:20 PM
Take everything out, remove ALL the orange krap an thourouly clean everything.
I would plastigauge the crank and check clearance.
REMEMBER to keep all shells in the place they came from
Post by: DomP on September 10, 2023, 05:46:57 PM
Far better than I expected Dom.
You need to rotate the gearbox and take another pic, although it looks fine in the pic posted there could be damage underneath we can't see.
Shells don't look that bad TBH, some minor pitting, most likely from contaminants in the oil sitting against the shell when it's been stood. Crank journal we can see looks ok.
Primary chain looks toast TBH, but check with the tank track test and see what it looks like then. Strip the engine completely, if nothing else it needs a really good clean.
Gear selectors look fine.
Anything sitting in the sump? little bits etc.
Looks like the dreaded red hermetite or instant gasket, really plastered it on either way.
Can you see the crank markings? the printed letters and numbers? What are the letters on the back of the lower crankcase as that will show what colours you should have fitted, well within 2 colours anyway.
Need more pics but looks good up to now.
All conrods are marked E and 2, the lower crankcase is AABBB, all of the gears are clean when rotated, no chips or marks. The sump had some fragments of hardened rubber that I assume must be from the camchain tensioner although there is a tiny bit missing from the nylon oil deflector (?)
While I'm in here I think for the sake of £48 I might as well do the primary chain, clocks show 32k if I trust they are original, or the engine for that matter as I've not checked. Replace al oil seals and bearings too?
Post by: DomP on September 10, 2023, 06:50:37 PM
Again looks ok apart from dreaded rtv jointing which has killed many honda engined after blocking restrictor jets.
Take everything out, remove ALL the orange krap an thourouly clean everything.
I would plastigauge the crank and check clearance.
REMEMBER to keep all shells in the place they came from
Yes I'm moderately pleased with what I've found, glad I cracked it on too! Looks like I'll be needing your cylinder reboring services Bryan, would it be jumping the gun to go ahead and get it to you? IMD or David Silvers piston kits? Obviously I'll hold off on them until you know how much oversize you have to go.
I'm still tempted by a cam reprofiling while it's all apart if it will be a worthwhile improvement, if my pocket allows!
Post by: Bryanj on September 10, 2023, 07:12:57 PM
Put up a pic of the inside of the lower case and lets see how much the chain has et away, 550 usualy less than 500.
Mileage dont mean much on an old bike, it could have babied or totaly hammered, i know the primary dampers are as expensive as the chain but they will be rock hard now so need changing.
There will be markings on the crank for pin sizes but if you cant find them bring up the crank and i will mic it for you
Post by: DomP on September 10, 2023, 07:32:57 PM
You can bring me or send the block, i dont do any blasting, cleaning or painting thats down to you.
Put up a pic of the inside of the lower case and lets see how much the chain has et away, 550 usualy less than 500.
Mileage dont mean much on an old bike, it could have babied or totaly hammered, i know the primary dampers are as expensive as the chain but they will be rock hard now so need changing.
There will be markings on the crank for pin sizes but if you cant find them bring up the crank and i will mic it for you
Ah don't worry I'm quite happy doing the clean and paint side of things😉 I'll definitely be doing the primary dampers, I'm a bit unsure what you mean by pin numbers?
Lower case has survived quite well I think. Maybe I'll call you this week at the times you said now that i know better the state of things.
Post by: K2-K6 on September 10, 2023, 08:00:04 PM
Something weird about it as barrels upward are generally well worn, in big contrast to the bottom end. Looks almost like two different engines have been combined that have very different service history.
Post by: DomP on September 10, 2023, 08:20:52 PM
Agree that the bottom end assessment shows a pretty good condition overall.
Something weird about it as barrels upward are generally well worn, in big contrast to the bottom end. Looks almost like two different engines have been combined that have very different service history.
I suppose that's always a possibility, the barrels are quite scored and from everyone's views on here I feared I'd find a right mess. I feel a lot more positive and about it now.
Post by: Oddjob on September 10, 2023, 08:44:52 PM
You can see where the primary chain has worn partly through the main oil gallery but you can also see it's rubbed on where the camchain tensioner goes as well, which makes sense of why I'm finding so many damaged at the very bottom. It's even worn a slight groove higher up, clearly it's been lashing around.
If you look closely at the crankshaft Dom you'll find some printed numbers and letters, exactly like the ones you can see on the rods. They can be very hard to see, washing the crank in petrol can help. They are all in a line, so if you find one you should be able to see the others without turning the crank.
Yours crankcase letters are good, the A's can only be yellow or green and the B's can only be green or brown. So no blacks, which is good news.
IF you were going to replace them I'd go with 4 greens in the A journals and 6 Browns in the B journals.
You need to split the rods now and check how those shells have lasted.
Post by: DomP on September 10, 2023, 09:03:46 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 10, 2023, 10:47:17 PM
Now you can either reuse your existing ones or change them for new ones, that’s your choice, remember though that there are 18 shells and most are around £15-20 each, so the best part of £300-400, Then a pair of chains and damper rubbers, another £150. Then gaskets, seals, orings, roller bearings etc.
Not cheap eh
Post by: Bryanj on September 10, 2023, 10:50:01 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 10, 2023, 11:00:20 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 10, 2023, 11:28:11 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 10, 2023, 11:33:05 PM
Post by: DomP on September 10, 2023, 11:48:22 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 11, 2023, 01:25:39 PM
IF you end up having to replace a rod you'll need to find another with the weight code E on it. Might be easy, might be hard.
Post by: DomP on September 11, 2023, 05:11:23 PM
Post by: Deano400 on September 11, 2023, 05:42:29 PM
[attach=1]
Post by: Deano400 on September 11, 2023, 05:43:16 PM
Post by: DomP on September 11, 2023, 06:01:57 PM
This is a good example. More often very difficult to see.
Thanks matey, I can see the marks just not able to work out what they say as mine are black. I've butchered one of my 6 sided 12mm sockets now so I've had the conrods off, all looks good on the shell faces and crank.
Post by: Oddjob on September 11, 2023, 07:36:32 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 11, 2023, 07:42:31 PM
Post by: Deano400 on September 11, 2023, 08:04:14 PM
The 400 tended to get white marks and the 500/550 black ones. Those are really clear John. Can't mistake those.
The 400s are hard enough to see after 40 years, I guess the 500/550 must be nigh on impossible,
Post by: Nurse Julie on September 11, 2023, 08:27:43 PM
Post by: DomP on September 11, 2023, 08:56:08 PM
If 550 conrods are the same as 500 ones I have a set going spare - just postage cost if it helps.
Thanks Ted, that's very generous of you. I'm still trying to work my way through it all at the moment so may take you up on the offer.
All the roller and needle bearings feel smooth, am I OK to reuse or should I be replacing them at this stage?
I need to decide on the most cost effective way of buying the gasket sets and oil seals.
Post by: Oddjob on September 11, 2023, 09:01:19 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 11, 2023, 09:13:28 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 11, 2023, 09:15:25 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 11, 2023, 09:25:28 PM
I would never build a customers engine and assume that it looks OK :o
Post by: Bryanj on September 11, 2023, 10:32:29 PM
For home mechanics plastigauge is a boon but can get expensive on shells
Post by: Trigger on September 11, 2023, 11:37:10 PM
Only problemGraham its only old sods like me and thee that can read a mic accurately, and know how to zero it!
For home mechanics plastigauge is a boon but can get expensive on shells
I always wondered why i have that big tool box full of measuring equipment. Next time you do a rebore, as long as the piston fits in the hole it should be fine mate :o :o :o
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 11, 2023, 11:50:34 PM
Depends what marks are on them Ted, not the letter but the number. If they are all number 2 then they'll be fine and he can reuse existing shells.
Might be difficult to find a Conrod of the same number - could it just be a worn Gudgeon Pin causing the problem?
Post by: Bryanj on September 12, 2023, 02:16:49 AM
Post by: Oddjob on September 12, 2023, 04:49:04 AM
Only problemGraham its only old sods like me and thee that can read a mic accurately, and know how to zero it!
For home mechanics plastigauge is a boon but can get expensive on shells
That’s a completely condescending comment Bryan and frankly insulting to a lot of members. Using a micrometer isn’t hard and digital micrometers have a zero button these days.
I’ve build hundreds of engines and never ever used plastigauge, it’s not rocket science to spot wear. It doesn’t take years of experience to spot it either. Most members on here are more than capable of tackling these engines, it’s insulting that you seem to suggest that only you can do these simple engine rebuilds. It’s not got VTEC, it’s not a V4, it’s a extremely simple design that almost everybody can get their head around.
Post by: DomP on September 12, 2023, 08:11:28 AM
Is it good practice to replace all needle, roller bearings in the gearbox etc or if they are smooth with no play can they be reused?
If I were to plastigauge what colour should I use, from looking I think red?
Post by: Trigger on September 12, 2023, 08:20:20 AM
Post by: AshimotoK0 on September 12, 2023, 08:28:39 AM
Post by: Bryanj on September 12, 2023, 08:59:19 AM
It is my opinion that standard micrometers are not accurate enough to measure the very small differences in pin tolerance the Honda use.
I know originally they used air gauges that are accurate to the 4th decimal place in metric and i dont think there is a hand tool made that can be that good.
I can remember being taught in a big machine shop and every student got a different size when measuring the same practice piece, and all were different from the quoted size.
I am not as accurate as i used to be and on the last 400 was only certain that all the pins were the same size.
This was not meant to offend in any way and i would more have expected Graham to be upset at being call an old fart, but i did include me in that.
There are some excellant engineers on here but most seem to be home enthusiasts who i am more than willing to help out using whater expensive kit i have aquired over the past 50 years
Post by: Trigger on September 12, 2023, 09:11:33 AM
Post by: Bryanj on September 12, 2023, 10:08:40 AM
When i used to do a lot of cars, mostly kent and essex fords, you could guarantee an oval rod if it knocked
Post by: Trigger on September 12, 2023, 10:45:26 AM
As for the price of the correct measuring equipment it can be very expensive and take a lot of experience to use correctly. ;)
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 12, 2023, 12:31:21 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 12, 2023, 02:25:20 PM
Not sure what is meant by reclaiming a con rod Graham?
I think the yanks call it resizing but, i have always known it as reclaiming. I use a Sunnen machine ;)
Post by: Bryanj on September 12, 2023, 03:01:16 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 12, 2023, 04:19:15 PM
Post by: Trigger on September 12, 2023, 06:17:29 PM
Post by: Seabeowner on September 12, 2023, 06:47:20 PM
Post by: DomP on September 16, 2023, 03:48:46 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 16, 2023, 04:54:00 PM
Post by: DomP on September 16, 2023, 05:04:16 PM
Cant remember spec, is that within?
Haynes says 0.02 to 0.048
My readings were when torqued to the lower end of the range
Post by: Bryanj on September 16, 2023, 05:15:49 PM
Post by: DomP on September 16, 2023, 06:06:20 PM
Clearance is fine then
Thats a relief 🤪
Post by: DomP on September 17, 2023, 07:57:37 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 17, 2023, 09:04:36 PM
Post by: DomP on September 17, 2023, 09:31:28 PM
Post by: Bryanj on September 17, 2023, 10:53:04 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 18, 2023, 02:17:12 AM
Post by: DomP on September 19, 2023, 03:28:29 PM
No, I meant you can buy cheaper alternatives Dom, not reuse old ones. The ones on the gearbox shafts are special so need to be Honda ones, the rest of them should be ok to use copies. I'd certainly use a new one on the clutch basket for instance and on the kickstart shaft if removed. When you go to replace the primary damper rubbers you'll think you need to remove the 3 screws but IIRC it's just the circlip you need to remove to split it in half. Don't remove the screws unless you have to. Far too many fall out again afterwards.
Interesting you should say that Ken, I thought they needed removing too (they dont) so set about taking them out with a JIS screwdriver, they were already loose but the staking prevented them from fully undoing by themselves. I'll be making sure they are tight and staked when I put it all together.
The dampers when removed were pretty hard.
Post by: Oddjob on September 19, 2023, 04:39:00 PM
Post by: DomP on September 19, 2023, 05:03:01 PM
When you fit the new rubbers you may think it's not going to go back together. A little silicon oil on them works wonders.
Oh that's good then, there was a very small amount of play in it
Post by: Oddjob on September 19, 2023, 06:37:41 PM
Post by: DomP on September 19, 2023, 09:34:58 PM
Before or after the new rubbers Dom.
With the old rubbers Ken, still waiting on my DS order due to a few backorder but my Cruizinimage pistons are on their way.
Post by: DomP on September 21, 2023, 04:46:30 PM
Post by: DomP on September 21, 2023, 07:09:27 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 21, 2023, 07:43:23 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on September 21, 2023, 07:51:00 PM
Post by: DomP on September 21, 2023, 08:13:02 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 21, 2023, 08:22:12 PM
Post by: K2-K6 on September 21, 2023, 08:22:45 PM
If you waht to try something to feel what it moves like, an old / broken clutch lever of similar, clamp end in vice, put ring spanner on it and pull very slightly to tension load it, then heat with torch where you want it to bend, then you'll feel it yeald as the heat reaches critical point to let it move. No real increase in pressure, just as it comes in range you'll feel it start to soften enough so it moves easily.
Some use soap on surface to see it going brown as it approaches the right heat level too.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 21, 2023, 08:56:20 PM
Post by: DomP on September 22, 2023, 07:54:26 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on September 22, 2023, 08:06:11 PM
Well Cruizinimage have delivered, quite literally! Ordered my pistons Sunday night, on my doorstep this afternoon. I won't even get them to Bryan that quick!We have always found their delivery service excellent. On one occasion, I ordered a few piston / ring kits on the Tuesday lunchtime and they arrived Friday morning.
Post by: DomP on September 23, 2023, 07:58:16 PM
Well Cruizinimage have delivered, quite literally! Ordered my pistons Sunday night, on my doorstep this afternoon. I won't even get them to Bryan that quick!We have always found their delivery service excellent. On one occasion, I ordered a few piston / ring kits on the Tuesday lunchtime and they arrived Friday morning.
It is impressive Julie! I'm going to be needing some oil pump o rings when you're back.
Post by: Nurse Julie on September 23, 2023, 08:03:44 PM
OK Dom. Send me a PM as a reminder and I'll get back to you when I'm back home, (and everyone else that's sent me PM's whilst I'm on my holibobs). Many thanksWell Cruizinimage have delivered, quite literally! Ordered my pistons Sunday night, on my doorstep this afternoon. I won't even get them to Bryan that quick!We have always found their delivery service excellent. On one occasion, I ordered a few piston / ring kits on the Tuesday lunchtime and they arrived Friday morning.
It is impressive Julie! I'm going to be needing some oil pump o rings when you're back.
Post by: DomP on September 23, 2023, 08:08:16 PM
Tomorrow is bake day so I'll fire up the gas bbq, is 2hrs enough at 200 degrees?
Post by: DomP on September 23, 2023, 09:04:18 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 23, 2023, 09:20:06 PM
Post by: DomP on September 23, 2023, 10:03:09 PM
I suspect cylinder studs might be a nightmare to remove without breaking!
My suspicions too Ted, mapp gas might help along with soaking in plus gas but maybe they might not need replacing if not too bad because the torque they are set to is actually quite low isn't it
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 23, 2023, 10:54:00 PM
3 out of my 8 exhaust studs snapped despite heat and a decent stood removal tool.
Post by: Bryanj on September 23, 2023, 10:58:32 PM
Post by: DomP on September 23, 2023, 11:40:07 PM
Leave them alone they can be a real pig even with heat
I'll leave well alone then Bryan, the pitting is what concerned me. I can just oil the updater a rub down its only a couple of the front studs.
Post by: DomP on September 24, 2023, 11:08:49 AM
Post by: Nurse Julie on September 24, 2023, 11:50:40 AM
Post by: DomP on September 24, 2023, 12:10:33 PM
Yes, you will need to strip what you've applied and clean cases thoroughly. It's usually oil impregnated in the alloy that causes the blistering.
I knew the answer really, my engine was bare alloy when I got it so there could be loads of oil etc absorbed into it. I degreased, dishwashered it and scrubbed it with thinners so I'm not sure what more I could have done, I'm thinking it's remaining moisture rather than oil so I'll try baking the top half more slowly to see if a gentler temperature gradient helps. I've got nothing to lose in trying and only time and a can of spray paint if it fails!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 24, 2023, 12:25:24 PM
IIRC the paint needs 24 hours of air drying in the summer before heat treatment.
Post by: DomP on September 24, 2023, 12:56:40 PM
I'm concerned by the mention of a dishwasher what detergent did you use as a normal dishwashing tablet attacks aluminium?
IIRC the paint needs 24 hours of air drying in the summer before heat treatment.
Everything I read says dishwasher tablets are fine, I hope they are ! There was no signs of any attack on the bare surfaces. I've had them drying in an heated room close to an oil radiator for 24 hrs so should be well cured, interestingly the top half has been in the oven now for an hour and is up to 180 with no signs of bubbling so I think it may be the temps rose a bit quickly or i wasnt as thorough on my bottom half?
Oh and didt use salt as we'd run out anyway.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 24, 2023, 03:28:02 PM
Post by: Nurse Julie on September 24, 2023, 03:34:32 PM
Post by: DomP on September 24, 2023, 04:37:08 PM
Most dishwasher tabs are caustic based, and as Ted says, it makes alloy go black.
Well I think I must have dodged a bullet there as it looks no different to when it went in, just cleaner. What does everyone use in theory dishwashers when doing this then, nothing I've read has suggested anything different.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on September 24, 2023, 07:59:31 PM
Post by: DomP on September 24, 2023, 10:34:31 PM
I heard of a dirty wiring harness going in a dishwasher with a dishwasher tablet.I think I've read that on xs650.org, I'm really hoping I've done no lasting damage now, there's certainly no visible damage. I defiant recommend a gas bbq to bake though, it's no where near controllable enough and mine smoked leaving marks on the new finish with the lower half. Top half came out of the oven having been raised to 200°c for 2hrs looking perfect, no sign of any micro bubbles, my parrot loved it because it meant he got to spend the day in the living room away from any dodgy fumes. That paint stinks when baked!
Post by: DomP on September 25, 2023, 08:09:48 AM
Post by: Bryanj on September 25, 2023, 08:52:12 AM
Post by: DomP on September 25, 2023, 09:26:59 AM
Not common, bring the tensioner complete with you when you come up and i will check it out for you
It explains the silvery non magnetic sump residue
Post by: DomP on September 27, 2023, 09:39:32 PM
Post by: Oddjob on September 27, 2023, 10:09:14 PM
I can supply rings for the oil pump if you need them.
Will look for that lock washer etc tomorrow
Post by: DomP on October 03, 2023, 09:35:05 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 03, 2023, 09:53:26 PM
Post by: DomP on October 03, 2023, 10:36:30 PM
Post by: DomP on October 04, 2023, 04:21:21 PM
Post by: Oddjob on October 04, 2023, 04:31:07 PM
Post by: DomP on October 04, 2023, 05:37:06 PM
All mine just fell off Dom. Try some heat and see if that helps. I have a few of the shafts if you bugger it up.
I'll get my mapp gas on it Ken
Post by: DomP on October 04, 2023, 06:00:22 PM
Post by: DomP on October 22, 2023, 08:10:48 AM
Post by: Bryanj on October 22, 2023, 08:48:26 AM
As to sealant squeezing out a small amount is ok
Post by: DomP on October 22, 2023, 09:18:14 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 22, 2023, 01:31:33 PM
Yesterday I travelled to Bryan to pick up my .5mm rebored barrels, I assembled the bottom end when I got back using what I thought was the thinnest layer of Hondabond, maybe it was due to my garage being pretty cold but it was near impossible to brush on. I ended up dabbing it on with my finger to get a thin covering. When I torqued all bolts down I got a small amount of sealant squeeze out which is now concerning me, in my haste, ok it was excitement, I missed to hondabond the two crank end seals. Do I need to split it an do it all again?
I also tried & failed to apply Hondabond with a brush even in the warm it was just too thick. In the end I wore a pair of disposable gloves, I would squeeze some Hondabond on the back of my left hand.
I then used my right forefinger to transfer small amounts of Hondabond onto the inverted upper crancase - this seemed to give me the thinest layer of sealant. Bearing in mind my three Groundhog days (http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,23291.225.html) I became very well practiced in the art of thin film technolgy.
I can't claim this method of application was my idea NJ gave me the tip, probably from years of applying ointment during her years of Nursing. ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Oddjob on October 22, 2023, 02:54:41 PM
Post by: DomP on October 25, 2023, 07:43:05 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 25, 2023, 09:06:00 PM
Post by: DomP on October 25, 2023, 09:35:08 PM
I would pop some grease on those stud threads Dom.
Bryan suggested I didn't put anything on the threads as it mucks with torque settings. Might have a bit of a hold up with my barrels now though.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on October 25, 2023, 10:34:09 PM
I would pop some grease on those stud threads Dom.
Bryan suggested I didn't put anything on the threads as it mucks with torque settings. Might have a bit of a hold up with my barrels now though.
Oil or WD 40 then as they look so dry - I would be worrying about any more rust forming.
Post by: DomP on October 25, 2023, 11:41:37 PM
Hopefully get this thing started before Christmas!
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 26, 2023, 01:11:51 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Oddjob on October 26, 2023, 04:10:16 AM
Post by: DomP on October 26, 2023, 08:00:52 AM
Post by: DomP on October 27, 2023, 12:52:17 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on October 27, 2023, 01:25:25 PM
A satisfying job whe you’re on with it
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: DomP on November 07, 2023, 06:01:59 PM
I'm now thinking of keying the entire frame and painting over the powdercoat with combicolour.
Post by: Johnny4428 on November 07, 2023, 08:43:59 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 07, 2023, 09:24:07 PM
Post by: DomP on November 07, 2023, 10:03:17 PM
I believe Hammerite Smooth will pretty much stick to anything so if out of view shading might not matter
I think I'll get it out in natural daylight to make a decision, if it stops raining!
Post by: Bryanj on November 07, 2023, 10:11:15 PM
Post by: DomP on November 07, 2023, 10:40:02 PM
It used to, but like a lot of the good stuff its been altered and aint so good anymore
Combicolour is really good Bryan, flats out even when brushed on which is one of its claims, even better if you warm it and the workpiece while using it. It does claim to be ok over powdercoat as its recommended for industrial use on machinery etc. I'll do a bigger test patch I think then give it the scratch test!
Post by: DomP on November 12, 2023, 10:13:44 AM
A bit of a side note but I've noticed my frame and engine numbers match, I thought this rarely happened and given the mix up of parts on my bike I'd assumed the engine may not be original.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on November 12, 2023, 12:35:59 PM
Yesterday I bit the bullet and lopped off the rear seat bracket to weld in my upswept hoop, I've not done much welding but nothing watching a few YouTube videos couldn't sort. I've noticed another peculiarity with my right foot peg, it's an F so has the fold up peg but when down the rubber sits sloping forward rather than being horizontal like the left side, could it be a peg from another model? It looks identical to the parts fiche on CMSNL.
A bit of a side note but I've noticed my frame and engine numbers match, I thought this rarely happened and given the mix up of parts on my bike I'd assumed the engine may not be original.
I believe it might just be common wear on the footpegs - my 500 ones are the same
Post by: DomP on November 12, 2023, 02:09:23 PM
Yesterday I bit the bullet and lopped off the rear seat bracket to weld in my upswept hoop, I've not done much welding but nothing watching a few YouTube videos couldn't sort. I've noticed another peculiarity with my right foot peg, it's an F so has the fold up peg but when down the rubber sits sloping forward rather than being horizontal like the left side, could it be a peg from another model? It looks identical to the parts fiche on CMSNL.
A bit of a side note but I've noticed my frame and engine numbers match, I thought this rarely happened and given the mix up of parts on my bike I'd assumed the engine may not be original.
I believe it might just be common wear on the footpegs - my 500 ones are the same
Ah you're thinking I mean not horizontal sticking out from the bike but I mean as in rotated about their axis. It is l located on the frame tab correctly.
Post by: mickwinf on November 12, 2023, 03:56:02 PM
Post by: Oddjob on November 12, 2023, 04:08:32 PM
Post by: DomP on November 12, 2023, 04:10:56 PM
They can get bent if dropped at some point, also designed to rest against the kick-start.
I think you're misunderstanding me, it's not bent it's rotated to the wrong angle which isn't possible from a drop.
Post by: DomP on November 12, 2023, 04:12:05 PM
Remove the footrest rubber Dom and check to see what shape the bar is, the 500 and the 550 used different shape rods, IIRC, the 500 used square type and the 550 flat type. As the 550 uses footrest rubbers that are held by bolts going through the rubber and threaded into the bar and the 500 doesn't have that, if you swap the bars over and drill holes for the bolts unless you get them right they don't line up and the rubber sits at an angle.
This sounds far more likely to me Ken, I'll go take a look and a few photos
Post by: DomP on November 13, 2023, 06:09:53 PM
Remove the footrest rubber Dom and check to see what shape the bar is, the 500 and the 550 used different shape rods, IIRC, the 500 used square type and the 550 flat type. As the 550 uses footrest rubbers that are held by bolts going through the rubber and threaded into the bar and the 500 doesn't have that, if you swap the bars over and drill holes for the bolts unless you get them right they don't line up and the rubber sits at an angle.
Here's some pics-
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2023, 03:57:11 AM
Post by: DomP on November 14, 2023, 04:14:52 PM
Something not right there Dom. The rear brake pedal is miles too high for starters. The dot on the pedal and the dot on the rear brake actuator arm are supposed to align.
Thats because I've got the rear end in bits
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2023, 04:48:19 PM
Post by: DomP on November 14, 2023, 05:41:04 PM
Try turning the peg down on the bolt
In this photo you can see that it's located in the notch on the frame so won't rotate any further, the other way would be the wrong direction so i can only assume it must be the wrong peg for this bike
Post by: Bryanj on November 14, 2023, 05:58:11 PM
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2023, 06:18:34 PM
Footrest looks correct TBH. Special one fitted to the 550F due to the kickstart needing to fold right out to miss the standard 4 into 1 exhaust. It might be possible to fit the 500 footrest onto the lower bolt if you're not using the standard exhaust.
Post by: DomP on November 14, 2023, 06:50:05 PM
I am probably wrong but i seem to remember the tand on the footrest bar locating againg the frame peg that sticks out
Yeah that's correct Bryan
Post by: andy120t on November 14, 2023, 07:14:11 PM
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2023, 07:35:19 PM
Post by: DomP on November 14, 2023, 08:00:18 PM
I'm pretty sure I have the same on a 550f frame. Funny flip-up peg to avoid kickstart exhausts etc. with the peg in a different location to the K models. I assumed the foot rest was angled forward to give a sportier lean forwards towards flat bars on the F model.
I thought this too until I noticed the left side
Post by: Oddjob on November 14, 2023, 10:38:04 PM
Post by: DomP on November 22, 2023, 09:12:38 PM
Post by: DomP on December 03, 2023, 08:53:14 AM
Post by: Oddjob on December 03, 2023, 09:29:03 AM
.
Post by: DomP on December 03, 2023, 09:49:30 AM
Look at the back of the arm, on the inside edge near where the cain adjusters are welded on there is a small vent hole drilled into the arm. Clean the hole as it normally gets partially blocked with rust flakes. A small straw or something similar inserted in hole and jiggled whilst shaking the arm will allow the rust to drop out
.
I thought there should be a venting hole, must have been powdercoated over, I'll have a look.
Post by: DomP on December 03, 2023, 12:20:09 PM
Look at the back of the arm, on the inside edge near where the cain adjusters are welded on there is a small vent hole drilled into the arm. Clean the hole as it normally gets partially blocked with rust flakes. A small straw or something similar inserted in hole and jiggled whilst shaking the arm will allow the rust to drop out
.
None on mine Ken, doesn't look like they've been painted over at there's no evidence. The most rattly but is the pressed bracing plate that has no vent hole either so I will just drill my own and flush it out
Post by: DomP on December 03, 2023, 02:51:29 PM
Post by: Oddjob on December 03, 2023, 03:48:53 PM
Post by: DomP on December 03, 2023, 04:47:04 PM
The CB500 swinging arm certainly has them and it's essentially the same arm.
Shall I just pop a couple of holes on each side, wouldn't at the lowest point on the underside be the best place to allow condensation to drain out?
Post by: Oddjob on December 03, 2023, 05:13:05 PM
Post by: Oddjob on December 03, 2023, 05:14:27 PM
7th pic, you can see the hole.
Post by: DomP on December 03, 2023, 05:58:20 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 04, 2023, 09:16:36 AM
I'll go other and wire brush it to see if it's there, why would they put it there and not at the lowest point to allow draining? Water will pool in the bottoms on those
It could be because if they put the hole in the bottom it could potentially allow water to find it's way in especially when you consider this is directly behind the rear wheel and subjected to the spray thrown off the rear tyre.
Post by: Oddjob on December 04, 2023, 11:22:13 AM
Post by: taysidedragon on December 04, 2023, 11:46:31 AM
I'll go other and wire brush it to see if it's there, why would they put it there and not at the lowest point to allow draining? Water will pool in the bottoms on those
Any holes in frames or swingarms are often there to allow the escape of hot gasses during welding. It reduces distortion I believe.
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 04, 2023, 09:33:43 PM
I'll go other and wire brush it to see if it's there, why would they put it there and not at the lowest point to allow draining? Water will pool in the bottoms on those
Any holes in frames or swingarms are often there to allow the escape of hot gasses during welding. It reduces distortion I believe.
Rickman put holes in their frames for the same reason Garath. It was also to allow the nickel solution to drain during the plating process otherwise the frame would rot from the inside out.
Post by: Oddjob on December 04, 2023, 11:18:22 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 05, 2023, 09:20:34 AM
Post by: Oddjob on December 05, 2023, 02:40:46 PM
I bought a basting syringe for meat, that has a small hollow metal needle, I'll fill the syringe with Zinc182 paint, fill the swinging arm till it's full, then allow it to drain through the holes, after that I'll fill with Waxoyl and allow that to drain. That should stop any future rust from developing. For me it's about ensuring the frame etc last as long as possible, I may do the same with the frame tubes if I an find a suitable entry point.
Post by: DomP on December 05, 2023, 05:46:41 PM
Post by: DomP on December 09, 2023, 05:56:29 PM
Post by: Oddjob on December 09, 2023, 07:07:30 PM
G is black
Also an A which is BZP.
There is one with no letter, probably plain steel
Post by: DomP on December 09, 2023, 11:44:15 PM
Post by: DomP on December 16, 2023, 11:11:02 AM
Post by: DomP on December 16, 2023, 11:18:47 AM
I've had some progress having got the lower half of the engine back in the frame, I've started refitting bits like the starter motor but have a question, how do I hold the crank still while I torque up the rotor bolt?
I just stuck a strong screwdriver shaft through the rotor to hold it
I have another question though, which of the two casing bolts by the alternator does the cable retaining clip go on?
Post by: DomP on December 17, 2023, 05:30:25 PM
I noticed I'm missing the dust cap the sits under the rear brake arm, how important is this part? Might be one for Ken or Bryan's endless supply of spares😉
Post by: Bryanj on December 17, 2023, 05:58:24 PM
Post by: DomP on December 17, 2023, 06:49:42 PM
Early ones didnt have them so cant be that important, i think yours should have an arrow on it that when it lines up with arrow on brake plate means the shoes are worn out
Yeah that's what CMS parts fiche suggest, to be fair Bryan I'm not going to ride it in crap weather so dust and during washing is the only concern. I reckon I could find something if only a thin washer to cover the exposed felt pad.
Post by: DomP on December 28, 2023, 05:48:53 PM
Post by: Sesman on December 28, 2023, 09:24:33 PM
Post by: DomP on December 28, 2023, 10:25:23 PM
Photo required for confirmation, but probably yes. No, you can’t reuse the pin!!!
Yeah, I said what can I use to re-pin. Here's the photo I meant to upload.
Post by: Oddjob on December 28, 2023, 10:30:37 PM
I'll have some of those bars in stainless in a few weeks Dom. They tend to rust a lot.
Post by: DomP on December 29, 2023, 09:38:16 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 29, 2023, 11:18:43 AM
If the corrosion is just on the sections between the fittings a good clean up & a some silver paint is pretty good - it's hardly vissible when the petrol tank is fitted.
My carbs had been restored by Gerben & when they drilled out the pin they broke part of that bearing - hence why my bracket had to be replaced - if you decide to drill out the pin be very careful as there is a risk of the bush in the bracket splitting in two. The bush looks like some sort of bronze colour.
Post by: DomP on December 29, 2023, 04:25:49 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 29, 2023, 04:48:21 PM
Thanks Ted, I'm not sure what is meant by the bronze bush, is there any photos on you're build thread?
The bracket that the throttle rod runs through has bushes inside the alloy bracket at each end - the bushes are not available seperately. When you drill out the pin on the right side of the bracket there is a risk that the drill will go into the bush & it could split.
Updated Found a photo.
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53429259704_aa6e3db78a_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ppmVsQ)throttle bracket bush 1 (https://flic.kr/p/2ppmVsQ) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53429094293_a10e5da9bb_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ppm5hV)broken bush (https://flic.kr/p/2ppm5hV) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
.
Post by: K2-K6 on December 29, 2023, 05:16:30 PM
Post by: Oddjob on December 29, 2023, 05:31:08 PM
The new Stainless Steel rods are £50 each Dom including P&P. That's not exactly cheap but you can't buy a new rod and getting an old one hard chromed costs around £65-85, I had a couple done earlier this year, the first time I had one done they charged around £25-30, then the power crisis hit and the cost went through the roof. I have some of those dog point screws as well, if you buy one I'll throw in one for you.
ATM, I only have one rod that Max made as the test one, I intend to order 3-4 more in a few weeks. However if you want this one I can let you have it so you can get on with the carbs.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 29, 2023, 05:55:11 PM
If you are going to remove a rusty one to replace it, then worthwhile using emery cloth (the real stuff) on the open rusty bits to allow passing through the bushes with reduced chance of damage.
Good point made K2-K6, I had cleaned off the visible rust on my old shaft with a small brass rotary brush in my drill before I drilled out the pin. The bracket was inside a large shallow plastic tub that I use for dismantling things like carbs or gearboxes - aside from some waste from drilling out the pin there was no other debris so I am certain it was already broken.
Post by: Laverda Dave on December 29, 2023, 06:33:39 PM
I've bought a S/S one from Max. He's going to be making them for the 400/4 in the near future.
Post by: Sesman on December 29, 2023, 07:23:47 PM
Photo required for confirmation, but probably yes. No, you can’t reuse the pin!!!
Yeah, I said what can I use to re-pin. Here's the photo I meant to upload.
Oops, sorry Dom. must get some new specs. Plus one on what Ken has advised…eg dog point screw.
Post by: Oddjob on December 29, 2023, 07:37:56 PM
I took my 400/4 spindle to Philpotts with my fork stanctions and asked how much to hard chrome it........£130😲, I didn't bother!
I've bought a S/S one from Max. He's going to be making them for the 400/4 in the near future.
That's odd, was this after I'd asked him to make them Dave as he asked for an old spindle to copy and AFAIK he's only made the one, which I have. Unless of course he made one especially for you.
Post by: DomP on December 29, 2023, 08:51:24 PM
Post by: Oddjob on December 29, 2023, 08:56:56 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on December 29, 2023, 08:59:48 PM
Post by: Oddjob on December 29, 2023, 09:10:14 PM
I've considered drilling 2 small holes above the bushes so I can occasionally drop a little silicon oil down there, just 2 small plugs needed to seal them.
Plus of course the ability to change or replate the rod.
Post by: DomP on December 29, 2023, 09:12:47 PM
Yeah 4 or 5mm. Not sure which I've got but suspect it's 5mm, I'll have a look.
I think for now Ken (and Ted) I'm just going to replate the throttle cable linkages and replace the shaft another time but thanks for the offer.
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 29, 2023, 09:23:11 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on December 29, 2023, 09:25:31 PM
Post by: DomP on December 29, 2023, 09:29:27 PM
Dom, did you get anywhere with the footpeg scenario? I’ve just come back from the states and having a read. I think I have a spare one if you want to try it. I had the same issues with mine and had to doctor the ones that stayed on the bike. How’s you get on?
Hi Roo, how was the trip? No I've not got to the bottom of it yet and moved on to other bits for now but I could try a spare. Maybe worth me getting some photos of mine off the bike to compare first as I'm sure it's not bent just cast at a different angle.
Post by: Laverdaroo on December 29, 2023, 09:29:36 PM
Glad to be home……..at least it’s warmer
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Post by: Laverdaroo on December 29, 2023, 09:33:04 PM
I thought the same as mine looked twisted too, had a right think on trying to fettle it. I had the compounding issue that at the time, none were available so bought whatever came up, mine was drooping badly also but managed that fairly easily, the twist was different but let’s have a look at what you’re working with and see if we can fettle it for you. Mine look pretty good now and I’m happy to leave them now but it took a bit of fiddling.Dom, did you get anywhere with the footpeg scenario? I’ve just come back from the states and having a read. I think I have a spare one if you want to try it. I had the same issues with mine and had to doctor the ones that stayed on the bike. How’s you get on?
Hi Roo, how was the trip? No I've not got to the bottom of it yet and moved on to other bits for now but I could try a spare. Maybe worth me getting some photos of mine off the bike to compare first as I'm sure it's not bent just cast at a different angle.
Post by: DomP on January 20, 2024, 05:33:20 PM
The rear has very tidy plated spokes with yellow phosphor nipples so I might see if I can sell them on to help fund the stainless.
Post by: Bryanj on January 20, 2024, 07:43:30 PM
Post by: DomP on January 20, 2024, 10:30:25 PM
That make was not fitted by Honda originaly, i think Kawasaki used them but i know Silver sold as a "quality" pattern part, if you are going to powder coat it i have a wheel you can have for a charity donation
That's great Bryan, I could collect it when I'm over at some point. Those spoke surely aren't oe either, now I've noticed them they look horrific.
Post by: Oddjob on January 21, 2024, 12:36:54 AM
Post by: DomP on January 21, 2024, 03:39:22 PM
Post by: DomP on January 22, 2024, 08:00:10 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on January 22, 2024, 08:29:32 PM
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Post by: DomP on January 22, 2024, 09:43:41 PM
Eek!
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Their prices have gone up a bit since I did my xs
Post by: Laverdaroo on January 22, 2024, 09:44:34 PM
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Post by: DomP on January 22, 2024, 11:07:09 PM
Last set of rims n spokes I had were over 600 quid and I built them meself
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It's a rewarding process isn't it!
Post by: DomP on January 23, 2024, 07:51:42 PM
*update, managed to drive the sprocket side bearing back out seemingly unharmed!
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 23, 2024, 09:51:27 PM
Cart before the horse, less haste more speed, or plain old driving both rear wheel bearings home before putting the spacer in the hub! 😥☹️
*update, managed to drive the sprocket side bearing back out seemingly unharmed!
Not 100% certain but iirc there are two spacers in the rear hub, the long distance piece with the prongs plus the narrower one that fits into the left bearing. I assume you may have forgotten the smaller one.
Post by: DomP on January 23, 2024, 09:54:27 PM
Cart before the horse, less haste more speed, or plain old driving both rear wheel bearings home before putting the spacer in the hub! 😥☹️
*update, managed to drive the sprocket side bearing back out seemingly unharmed!
Not 100% certain but iirc there are two spacers in the rear hub, the long distance piece with the prongs plus the narrower one that fits into the left bearing. I assume you may have forgotten the smaller one.
Oh better than that Ted, I forgot both🤦♂️
Post by: Bryanj on January 24, 2024, 09:42:13 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 24, 2024, 11:54:00 AM
Cart before the horse, less haste more speed, or plain old driving both rear wheel bearings home before putting the spacer in the hub! 😥☹️
*update, managed to drive the sprocket side bearing back out seemingly unharmed!
Not 100% certain but iirc there are two spacers in the rear hub, the long distance piece with the prongs plus the narrower one that fits into the left bearing. I assume you may have forgotten the smaller one.
Oh better than that Ted, I forgot both🤦♂️
I will make no judgement here as I rode my 400 for a 100 miles before I discovered why it was down on power, popping & banging due to two wrongly connected plug leads.
Post by: DomP on January 27, 2024, 08:52:23 AM
Post by: Bryanj on January 27, 2024, 10:01:06 AM
Post by: DomP on January 27, 2024, 11:00:32 AM
New bearing time...again maybe
*all sorted, I heated up the brake side bearing surround til very hot then knocked back the spacer from the socket side with an 18mm socket just enough to take the pressure of the inner race. Free spins without notchyness. Might have got away with that.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on January 27, 2024, 11:58:14 AM
The tightening of the lock ring fixes the left side bearing (after you have previously fitted the right side bearing) Once assembled the spacers will give some preload to the inner races - this preload is limited as the right side bearing would be pushed out if it became excessive.
At least the above is how I see it in my head.
PS I am aslo often wrong.
Post by: DomP on January 27, 2024, 01:15:03 PM
Post by: DomP on January 28, 2024, 09:46:23 PM
Post by: Bryanj on January 28, 2024, 10:02:44 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on January 28, 2024, 10:03:51 PM
Post by: DomP on January 28, 2024, 10:17:37 PM
Are you buiding the wheels yourself Dom, if so i have hints to make it easier
Indeed Bryan, including that front-wheel you've offered me😉 I've built my xs650 wheels before but more than welcome any tips mate
Post by: Bryanj on January 29, 2024, 12:39:49 AM
There are two different ends at the hub end in angle and depth. One is fitted inwards from the outside so you see the head at the hub, the othe is fitted outwards from the inside so you dont see the head, there are 20 of each.
Fit only the ones that go inwards and fit the rim using just these 20, 10 per side.
Get the wheel truded as best you can on just these 20 spokes not forgetting Honda spec is 1/8 for side to side and up and down, no doubt you will get it closer than that BUT dont try and true out the jump where the weld is.
After you have done this it is easy to fit the other spoke from inside to outside and fit then tighten.
Doing this you are only truing on half the spokes which is way easier
Post by: Johnny4428 on January 29, 2024, 11:14:21 AM
Post by: DomP on January 29, 2024, 07:33:20 PM
Post by: DomP on February 02, 2024, 05:13:17 PM
Post by: Oddjob on February 02, 2024, 05:17:48 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 02, 2024, 06:27:10 PM
Post by: DomP on February 02, 2024, 07:36:03 PM
What spacer, no pic?
Oh my classic mistake! Here it is
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 02, 2024, 07:44:51 PM
I'll check it for condition foc postage only if it helps.
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 02, 2024, 07:48:38 PM
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 02, 2024, 08:15:55 PM
My original steel 500 rear spacers I posted out to Max who made exact copies of them - when I fitted the SS copies the rear wheel did not sit centrally.
That is when I found out that my bike had the wrong spacers fitted. Max supplied the correct ones - I binned the old steel ones as I have no idea what they were off.
I do however have the wrong sized ones in SS that are useless, sorry if I have built your hopes up - I should have looked before I posted.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 02, 2024, 09:06:09 PM
Post by: Oddjob on February 02, 2024, 10:04:09 PM
Post by: DomP on February 02, 2024, 10:24:29 PM
That is worryingly worn Dom, like the hub had been media blasted and the seal and spacer left in. You need to replace that. Max has them for sale on Ebay last time I looked https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156003857172?hash=item24528df314:g:Dm4AAOSwRrpk6SW8&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwFenbnOcq2gpA3mu2NrOTve8TZF3EgxbEA2Nuw3BfqG75mq%2FS64omy%2FXjNFgCKk2RVXyt0TxxsrawFG9Mj9edkyHCEgBLbNehVWpVJlSm0y9Fz1KZygQ1A0RkS2h2bKLA4jXLcCjv8eg1Q%2BqbRmWiiaRWjMEerUe5f%2BeiMox8YuLQeY6cI3o4iRleYLZSDVwx2AcG1RkM2t9S2nmI6c5Q%2BKp0wIAzJK4Ldmzt8OReob8gx7B4jbP3nfL9ZN8ncCHsQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8rOxL2tYw
It's from my rear wheel which the hub was totally knackered from the sprocket carrier wearing away so has been replaced and rebuilt, this is one of the only remaining pieces.
I think Roos offer or a stainless replacement from Max might be the best option.
Post by: Laverdaroo on February 02, 2024, 10:42:22 PM
Post by: Oddjob on February 02, 2024, 11:35:19 PM
Post by: DomP on February 03, 2024, 12:25:28 PM
Post by: DomP on February 03, 2024, 12:48:48 PM
The SS one I have is 38 mm deep spacer so almost certainly the wrong size.
Ted, I'm pretty sure 38mm is the correct size for my 550f1 assuming it is the sprocket side
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 03, 2024, 12:53:29 PM
Post by: DomP on February 03, 2024, 01:22:36 PM
Yours for postage only if you can use it. I will pop a photo up when I'm back home.
Thanks Ted! I've tried searching the correct spacer sizes for a 550f1 but can't find much so I'm relying on what is fitted being correct, currently it is 38mm long x 34mm tapering up to 38mm x 20mm bore on the sprocket side, 50mm x 35mm x 20mm bore on the brake plate side.
If anyone with an f1 can confirm these I'd be grateful.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 03, 2024, 02:00:46 PM
This spacer pushed my wheel off centre towards the right side so Max supplied me the correct one for my 500 that is about 3 mm shorter.
.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53506046481_328790fbe1_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pw9tuM)rear spacer (https://flic.kr/p/2pw9tuM) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Post by: DomP on February 03, 2024, 02:31:58 PM
The other measurements look the same as those you have posted for the hole size & thickness, bore 20 & 34-38 o/d diameter for the seal etc.
This spacer pushed my wheel off centre towards the right side so Max supplied me the correct one for my 500 that is about 3 mm shorter.
.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53506046481_328790fbe1_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pw9tuM)rear spacer (https://flic.kr/p/2pw9tuM) by Macabe Thiele (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187487200@N03/), on Flickr
Can I just check but it looks perfect Ted.
Post by: DomP on February 03, 2024, 02:36:12 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 03, 2024, 03:32:18 PM
Post by: DomP on February 06, 2024, 06:52:51 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on February 06, 2024, 08:03:03 PM
I want to replace my rear axle nut with a stainless one, does anyone know where I can get an m18 x 1.5 stainless castle nut? Middleton only go up to m16 and ebay items all seem to be 1.75mm thread pitch
I suspect you need the right high tensile grade of SS.
Post by: DomP on February 06, 2024, 10:32:16 PM
Post by: DomP on February 11, 2024, 08:16:50 PM
Post by: Bryanj on February 11, 2024, 11:36:12 PM
Post by: DomP on February 12, 2024, 08:15:03 AM
About the same as original
My back wheel spokes were near to immaculate but may have been replaced at some point where as fronts are pretty corroded. Cws are good and I've used them in the past but they're now £130 an end posted
Post by: Johnny4428 on February 12, 2024, 11:26:56 AM
Post by: DomP on February 12, 2024, 12:16:07 PM
Not that long ago I was groaning at them being £75! 😡
It's hard to justify £130 to the 'bank manager'
Post by: Johnny4428 on February 12, 2024, 12:28:27 PM
😂😂😂Not that long ago I was groaning at them being £75! 😡
It's hard to justify £130 to the 'bank manager'
An alternative would be plated ones on the front to match the rear? Would they be good enough to replate?
Post by: DomP on February 12, 2024, 12:46:38 PM
😂😂😂Not that long ago I was groaning at them being £75! 😡
It's hard to justify £130 to the 'bank manager'
An alternative would be plated ones on the front to match the rear? Would they be good enough to replate?
The DS ones are BZP aren't they, mine are too far gone and even then the tine involved plating 40 spokes and nipples with my small kit makes the DS ones price attractive
Post by: Johnny4428 on February 12, 2024, 02:40:56 PM
Post by: DomP on February 14, 2024, 10:52:50 AM
Post by: Bryanj on February 14, 2024, 01:53:31 PM
Post by: DomP on February 14, 2024, 05:05:53 PM
Single disc none at all, you use all the same bits in same places speedo drive is driven by the chrome plate and bolts
Cheers Bryan, what was the change for then?
Post by: Bryanj on February 14, 2024, 06:02:16 PM
Post by: DomP on February 14, 2024, 06:41:23 PM
Probably cheaper to produce, less machinig time
OK, final question, what was the purpose of the machined flats that were seemingly not required?
Post by: Bryanj on February 14, 2024, 07:28:08 PM
Post by: DomP on February 15, 2024, 09:01:35 PM
Post by: DomP on March 02, 2024, 03:20:50 PM
Post by: Laverda Dave on March 02, 2024, 07:29:55 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 02, 2024, 07:35:28 PM
If it's purely cosmetic can you live with it or cover it with fork gaiters as a cheaper alternative.
Post by: DomP on March 02, 2024, 07:38:16 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 02, 2024, 07:43:10 PM
Post by: DomP on March 02, 2024, 07:53:44 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 02, 2024, 08:00:06 PM
Someone like Bryan or Ken might know the reason for such wear.
Post by: DomP on March 02, 2024, 08:20:55 PM
Post by: DomP on March 03, 2024, 09:45:22 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 03, 2024, 11:42:32 AM
Post by: Bryanj on March 03, 2024, 02:20:25 PM
Post by: DomP on March 03, 2024, 04:48:24 PM
Some wear is frequent, those look fine to use to me
That's a relief Bryan, I've reassembled them😀
Post by: DomP on March 05, 2024, 08:12:13 PM
Having had the barrels skimmed I'm hoping the orings in the top of the oil jets will be sufficiently fat enough to prevent leaks. I've fitted the head gasket and dropped the head on, at this point I'm going to ask if I'm missing anything? I've got new pucks from Julie to fit s well.
Post by: davidcumbria on March 06, 2024, 07:52:04 AM
The po had fitted the oil jets upside down on my bike, not realised and actually damaged the seat in the barrels - amazed it wasn’t leaking.
Post by: DomP on March 06, 2024, 08:02:01 AM
Post by: Bryanj on March 06, 2024, 08:07:36 AM
Too much might close the hole a bit.
Rest of it looking good mate
Post by: DomP on March 06, 2024, 08:18:17 AM
I'll put a picture up with a steel rule so I can demonstrate how shallow the Vesrah o rings are
Post by: DomP on March 06, 2024, 09:20:48 PM
Getting the camshaft, sprocket and chain all on was a right b#####d, I knew I'd read Ted suggesting his method so trawled back through his build thread until I found his method. All I can say is get the chain on the righthand side of the sprocket not the left then it's easy.
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 06, 2024, 10:12:29 PM
Pleased it helped.👍👍👍
Post by: Bryanj on March 06, 2024, 10:38:01 PM
Post by: DomP on March 06, 2024, 11:16:12 PM
I might do that Bryan but I felt uncomfortable torquing the two m6 flange bolts, makes me cringe doing them up in alloy to specified torque.
Post by: Bryanj on March 06, 2024, 11:30:28 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 07, 2024, 12:14:32 AM
It really did help Ted, what didn't help was reading Ken mention to check and check again the tensioner is sat in its pocket in the crankcases...I'm panicking now even though I'm sure it was, any way of checking now its all torqued up?
I know what you mean about the tensioner, just have confidence that everything went into place pretty easily when you lowered the block.
The front part that sits between the chain has side lugs that if it's not in place would stop the block going flat down if its not in the recess slot iirc.
The rear tensioner blade is easier as it has the adjuster bolt plus the top mount - iirc the top bolt has an O ring - this is just from my memory. I have the same sort of panic attacks - I ought to take assembly photos so I can check my work but I don't - thats when doubt creeps in.
This was the advice from Bryan & Ken on fitting the tensioner that I followed.http://www.sohc.co.uk/index.php/topic,28541.510.html
Post by: DomP on March 07, 2024, 08:11:14 AM
I agree Ted, but I have to have something to wake me in the middle of the night😀
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 07, 2024, 11:20:05 AM
I know what you mean though wrestling with problems & solutions makes for restless sleep until the tricky things are done.
Post by: DomP on March 07, 2024, 11:36:39 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on March 07, 2024, 12:18:09 PM
Oh I've reached that point as well Ted, I thought I was still young at 44
BPE is part of being a bloke!
Post by: Seabeowner on March 07, 2024, 07:20:14 PM
Post by: DomP on March 07, 2024, 07:25:56 PM
I always fit the sump after the block so you can check the tensioner is in the slot by looking up underneath. It can miss and slip behind, done that a few times.
I suppose I can whip the sump off and have a look because I've not got oil in it yet.
I've just had to do a helicoil thread repair on one of the valve cover bolts, literally one of the last ones I did up so lots of masking up to prevent any swarf going any where. I used a piece of aquarium airline on my Charles hoover to vac the hole out.
Post by: Seabeowner on March 07, 2024, 09:42:22 PM
Pic of missed pocket:
Post by: DomP on March 07, 2024, 10:03:46 PM
Post by: DomP on March 09, 2024, 05:47:25 PM
Post by: DomP on March 22, 2024, 07:21:05 PM
Post by: Bryanj on March 22, 2024, 08:11:01 PM
Post by: DomP on March 22, 2024, 11:01:07 PM
Post by: DomP on April 02, 2024, 06:11:04 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 02, 2024, 06:28:58 PM
Or something like this?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112665458713?chn=ps&_ul=GB&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&amdata=enc%3A1sWidqwJeSU24B67B0VzMbQ40&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=112665458713&targetid=1647205088520&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9046416&poi=1006674&campaignid=19926849521&mkgroupid=147378848803&rlsatarget=pla-1647205088520&abcId=9311021&merchantid=115207584&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2a6wBhCVARIsABPeH1twg4sNgWnItKn5mNc_wXiuivCS6xw6D4qAJfeBYcS9dSrZocQ7_6QaAhiAEALw_wcB
That said some here might remember I was going to paint my 500 frame in Nut Brown so best ignore me.lol
Post by: DomP on April 02, 2024, 07:37:57 PM
Post by: DomP on April 25, 2024, 09:28:18 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on April 25, 2024, 10:16:53 PM
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Post by: Laverda Dave on April 25, 2024, 10:25:31 PM
Post by: DomP on April 25, 2024, 11:03:17 PM
Things I've learnt, I can't weld but I can melt two pieces of metal together and tidy it up with filler. Fibreglassing is satisfying if a bit tricky at times. Paint stripper is very flammable, don't set light to it while holding an item covered in it, you may just flap around like a loony trying to put it out and splash molten stripper on your otherwise immaculate Daytona 675. This really did happen and I'm only just forgiving myself for it.
Post by: Laverdaroo on April 25, 2024, 11:13:27 PM
The job list is endless and there’s always something else to sort! I’ve some spare black coated brake lines lurking in the draw. They’re the ones from the solid section off the calliper to the splitter, not sure of the configuration you’re using but I bought them after getting sums wrong and ended up being a bit short. I had some remade so these are surplus.
I went for the single tachometer, digital speedo combo from Daytona. Looks pretty classic, small and has all you need on yer know…….possibility for you?
I run a digital connector from the OE speedo drive the same route as the cable would go up to the clocks. Fairly inconspicuous……(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240425/957ca24eace175d490e37e2401fadd45.jpg)
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Post by: Laverdaroo on April 25, 2024, 11:18:45 PM
Crap photo but during jogging mudguards. That’s the electric pick up on the drive there. It had a fettle after this for better clearance but works a treat and keeps a look………kinda
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Post by: Laverdaroo on April 25, 2024, 11:19:54 PM
Betterer look
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Post by: DomP on April 25, 2024, 11:31:05 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on April 25, 2024, 11:42:25 PM
Oh, I misunderstood the speedo cable thing Roo, I assumed it plugged into the end of the standard cable which concerned me as it'll be hugely long by then. Which cable was this and was it from Digital speedos?The tacho is from digital speedo’s and I think the cable connector is from Louis Moto, I got it from there as DS’s didn’t have one in stock. If I get chance tmrw I’ll dig the paperwork and get the deets for you
Yeah, the cable turns the original rotational, speedo drive into a pulse that the tacho can read. It has to be set up like everything which I haven’t got round to yet but the reviews are really good and it was perfect for what I was doing.
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Post by: davidcumbria on April 26, 2024, 06:40:19 AM
Post by: DomP on April 26, 2024, 06:51:45 AM
It would be good if you could find the details Roo, ive just looked on Louis moto and there are a few different cables so I may give them a call to see which I need, they all appear identical. One other question, have you blanked off the tacho drive on the cam cover? I was looking at that very gauge too but now I'm thinking of a smaller 64mm koso
Post by: Laverdaroo on April 26, 2024, 11:34:21 AM
I’ll have a look later on for you, just out wobbling around the mendips today with ‘The Long Haired General’ on the back.
(I’m on my best behaviour)
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Post by: DomP on April 26, 2024, 12:06:07 PM
Yeah, bunged it up with a rubber grommet, I’ve plenty if you want one
I’ll have a look later on for you, just out wobbling around the mendips today with ‘The Long Haired General’ on the back.
(I’m on my best behaviour)
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🤣
Post by: DomP on April 26, 2024, 01:24:02 PM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 26, 2024, 03:11:56 PM
Some that have them keep them well hidden it seems with lots of navigation needed.
Post by: DomP on April 26, 2024, 05:45:35 PM
Post by: SteveD CB500K0 on April 26, 2024, 08:00:24 PM
I've noticed quite a few Websites where phone numbers, actual postal address are missing as well as a lack of e-mail address.
Some that have them keep them well hidden it seems with lots of navigation needed.
Companies Act 2006.
If you are a limited company in the UK you must put (at least) your registered address on your website.
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Post by: Laverdaroo on April 26, 2024, 08:31:25 PM
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Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 26, 2024, 09:33:50 PM
I've noticed quite a few Websites where phone numbers, actual postal address are missing as well as a lack of e-mail address.
Some that have them keep them well hidden it seems with lots of navigation needed.
Companies Act 2006.
If you are a limited company in the UK you must put (at least) your registered address on your website.
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That address is often one of a row of brass plaques at an office full of letter boxes!
Post by: DomP on April 26, 2024, 10:07:52 PM
We've got an address in the High Street in my home town of Kington that has hundreds of businesses registered at it.
Post by: Laverdaroo on April 26, 2024, 10:10:22 PM
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Post by: Johnny4428 on April 27, 2024, 06:44:30 AM
Post by: McCabe-Thiele (Ted) on April 27, 2024, 09:54:59 AM
Post by: Johnny4428 on April 27, 2024, 09:59:46 AM
Post by: DomP on April 27, 2024, 03:15:46 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on April 27, 2024, 03:45:09 PM
Post by: DomP on April 27, 2024, 05:04:26 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on April 27, 2024, 05:10:07 PM
Have you been using their online messaging service? I've been getting some joy speaking to a chap called Jamie but as I've said before he doesn't answer some of my questions but avoids them. I hate that, if I ask 5 questions I want 5 answers not 4!Are you boys emailing or calling, I’ve never had an issue with them?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240427/e575a29683bbf469d32d932ae76352bd.jpg)
.
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Post by: DomP on April 27, 2024, 08:41:45 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on April 27, 2024, 08:44:18 PM
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Post by: taysidedragon on April 27, 2024, 09:40:13 PM
Post by: Johnny4428 on April 27, 2024, 10:59:51 PM
Post by: Laverdaroo on April 28, 2024, 02:00:50 AM
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Post by: DomP on April 28, 2024, 09:14:41 AM